Aaaaaaaaand I killed another scope

[KenLee]

Whether the ATV ride did it or not... I can't bring myself to have a rifle ride in one of the 4wheeler mount things... sewing machine is a good description. I can't sit there and watch my rifle shake the shit out of itself. I know it should take it but...

I had Nikons stand the 4trx front racks for 30 years until I started buying more expensive scopes.

 

[PanhandlePilgrim]

Action to stock, barrel to action, rail to action, etc. are all potential points of shift. If you haven’t proofed the rifle to hold zero from impacts, you cannot isolate any other variable. If you haven’t specifically proofed your rifle with drops, I can almost guarantee you your action is moving in the stock is causing a shift.

Regardless- NXS’s shifting zero by 2 MOA is a hard broke scope- their lenses are bonded and they would be rattling like the OP’s. Same with a Trijicon losing zero twice in a week. Y’all’s issue is somewhere other than the scopes.

Hmmm. I'll have to go kick my rifle around and see what happens i guess. I did change stocks from an HS Precision to a Pure Precision to save 2lbs which is the only thing I can think of that would have made a difference. The action is tightly bedded so idk where else the movement would come from. Has there been issues with carbon stocks flexing between hot and cold and causing movement?
Either way, I think I'll start with taking my scope off and shaking it.

 

[Formidilosus]

Hmmm. I'll have to go kick my rifle around and see what happens i guess. I did change stocks from an HS Precision to a Pure Precision to save 2lbs which is the only thing I can think of that would have made a difference. The action is tightly bedded so idk where else the movement would come from.

What is the mounting setup?

Has there been issues with carbon stocks flexing between hot and cold and causing movement?

Not that I’ve ever seen.

Either way, I think I'll start with taking my scope off and shaking it.

Haha.

 

[PanhandlePilgrim]

What is the mounting setup?




Not that I’ve ever seen.




Haha.

Scope is mounted with Hawkins rings that were decreased and torqued to 20 or 22lbs i can't remember. Box said 18 I think and that has proven inadequate in the past. Rail is a Nightforce that is JB Welded to the action and torqued to 65lbs. I just went through everything, it was all tight. One thing I just recently saw from MDT was adding some grease to the rail before mounting the rings to the rail to prevent the metal binding up as it clamps down. I wonder if maybe I had a shift there.

 

[Dreed15]

Had to of been one of those because NF never fails.

Agreed. NF are bomb proof. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one breaking easily

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Agreed. NF are bomb proof. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one breaking easily

Except the op has a NF fail on him.

 

[Dreed15]

Except the op has a NF fail on him.

Yeah, besides that one, which is unfortunate. I’ve ran NF in the army for a couple years and never had an issue. But I’m sure there’s some that don’t stand up to the normal NF standards.

 

[NevadaMike]

Except the op has a NF fail on him.

In this thread alone there are three that "failed."

But its kid tested and mother approved. Well......uhhhhhh "it's the rings"............ errrrrrr "action screws, must be the action screws" I know I know.!!.........."it's the bedding" must be the bedding."

 

[JGRaider]

In this thread alone there are three that "failed."

But its kid tested and mother approved. Well......uhhhhhh "it's the rings"............ errrrrrr "action screws, must be the action screws" I know I know.!!.........."it's the bedding" must be the bedding."

Every time it's a NF, or any RS approved scope that fails, the excuses flow like a river don't they? It's pretty entertaining.

 

[Formidilosus]

In this thread alone there are three that "failed."

But its kid tested and mother approved. Well......uhhhhhh "it's the rings"............ errrrrrr "action screws, must be the action screws" I know I know.!!.........."it's the bedding" must be the bedding."

What three in this thread have failed?

 

[HuntHarder]

Com' on man! Which 3 haven't failed in this thread? 1 for sure, 100% has failed, the other 2 had a shift in zero. Might have been the scopes, might have been something else. Time will tell.

Your very small test size of reliability doesn't prove it as an absolute. It is an indicator that it MAY be more reliable than others, but that is it. Are you trying to say it is impossible for a Nightforce to have a zero shift without lenses rattling?

 

[Formidilosus]

Com' on man! Which 3 haven't failed in this thread? 1 for sure, 100% has failed, the other 2 had a shift in zero. Might have been the scopes, might have been something else. Time will tell.

There is one failed scope- and 3 rifle systems that lost zero. It is almost impossible mathematically that 2x NXS’s and a Trijicon all lost zero multiple times in a week- and that they aren’t rattling like the OP’s.

Your very small test size of reliability doesn't prove it as an absolute.

You have no clue what my sample size is.

It is an indicator that it MAY be more reliable than others, but that is it. Are you trying to say it is impossible for a Nightforce to have a zero shift without lenses rattling?

Don’t be disingenuous- this thread and my responses to the OP are here. Not once did I claim the OP didn’t break the scope.

@PanhandlePilgrim scope issues aren’t scope issues- almost guaranteed. Now he can keep thinking it is, and do nothing- in which case he’s going to lose zero again. And again, and again. Regardless of scope brand. Or, he/they can find out what the root cause of the shift is.

Once again- NF NXS lenses are permanently bonded in- if they shifted 2+ MOA- it is HARD BROKE. It will never come back, it will not be able to be rezeroed, it will not hold any semblance of a group, it will be massively and objectively broken. Just the like the OP’s.

Bonded scopes- like NF NXS, Leupold fixed power Mark 4’s, S&B SDII 1-8x dual CC, and a couple others don’t just lose zero by 2+ MOA. That’s not mechanically how they work. Someone believing that is, means that they do not know how they work.

 

[rbutcher1234]

Speaking of bonded lenses, is the maven rs1.2 bonded? It seems that it has passed durability in your larger sample of witnesses scopes right? @Formidilosus

 

[HuntHarder]

There is one failed scope- and 3 rifle systems that lost zero. It is almost impossible mathematically that 2x NXS’s and a Trijicon all lost zero multiple times in a week- and that they aren’t rattling like the OP’s.








You have no clue what my sample size is.




Don’t be disingenuous- this thread and my responses to the OP are here. Not once did I claim the OP didn’t break the scope.

@PanhandlePilgrim’s scope issues aren’t scope issues- almost guaranteed. Now he can keep thinking it is, and do nothing- in which case he’s going to lose zero again. And again, and again. Regardless of scope brand. Or, he/they can find out what the root cause of the shift is.

Once again- NF lenses are permanently bonded in- if they shifted 2+ MOA- it is HARD BROKE. It will never come back, it will not be able to be rezeroed, it will not hold any semblance of a group, it will be massively and objectively broken. Just the like the OP’s.

Bonded scopes- like NF NXS, Leupold fixed power Mark 4’s, S&B SDII 1-8x dual CC, and a couple others don’t just lose zero by 2+ MOA. That’s not mechanically how they work. Someone believing that is, means that they do not know how they work.

Where was I disingenuous?

 

[HuntHarder]

Give me a clue on your sample size

 

[Formidilosus]

@Ucsdryder

Instead of making snarky comments or laughing emojis in almost every thread, why don’t you come shoot with us and show us how wrong and ignorant we are? There is a S2H course in February- it’s only a few hours from you; come for free, bring your rifles and show us what’s up.

@PanhandlePilgrim if @Ucsdryder will come shoot with us- we would like to buy your Trijicon and your buddies NXS’s. We will mount them, test them, and shoot them mounted to a SxS for 7 days with @Ucsdryder rifles riding right beside them and document everything that is done. @NevadaMike you are invited as well- if the those NF NXS’s lose zero by 2+ MOA during the week, the course is free for you.


If you guys actually believe what you write, there is near zero risk for you- you get to shoot for a week, ride snow machines, ski and snowshoe in the mountains; eat excellent food, and run around and shoot in terrain and situations that is very likely you have never experienced…. AND you get to show how biased and incompetent we are. We’ll even film all the use of the scopes- zero checks, riding, dropping, skiing; y’all’s shooting performance, our shooting performance, etc; for everyone to see.

 

[Formidilosus]

Where was I disingenuous?

Because you implied that I won’t admit NF’s break. At no point have I stated that the OP’s scope wasn’t broken. @PanhandlePilgrim scope? Yes, it is almost impossible for bonded NXS’s, Leupold fixed power Mark 4’s, S&B SDII 1-8x Dual FP, etc. to shift zero by 2+ MOA and not be physically broken. Those scopes are not a normal scope- the lenses are BONDED, when they break- they BREAK.

Notice there is a Leupold scope named in there- how am I biased against certain scopes when I have stated since I started in this forum that Leupold fixed power Mark 4 M3A models are some of the most reliable and durable scopes ever made?

 

[Formidilosus]

@PanhandlePilgrim conversely, if you want to ship all three of those rifles and scopes- with a continuously running camera- we will go through and isolate on video what is causing the shifts. We will test the guns as they show up, then will go through each one and find what is causing the issue- maybe it is the 2x NXS’s.

 

[HuntHarder]

Because you implied that I won’t admit NF’s break. At no point have I stated that the OP’s scope wasn’t broken. @PanhandlePilgrim scope? Yes, it is almost impossible for bonded NXS’s, Leupold fixed power Mark 4’s, S&B SDII 1-8x Dual FP, etc. to shift zero by 2+ MOA and not be physically broken. Those scopes are not a normal scope- the lenses are BONDED, when they break- they BREAK.

Notice there is a Leupold scope named in there- how am I biased against certain scopes when I have stated since I started in this forum that Leupold fixed power Mark 4 M3A models are some of the most reliable and durable scopes ever made?

Never meant to imply that. I guess that's why typing on the internet gets taken wrongly often. You immediately get defensive for no reason if anyone questions your thoughts. I think its clear 1 scope broke and you admit it.

I am not knowledgeable on Nightforce's bonding process and asked if " you are saying it is impossible for a zero shift to happen without lenses rattling?"

 

[Formidilosus]

Speaking of bonded lenses, is the maven rs1.2 bonded? It seems that it has passed durability in your larger sample of witnesses scopes right? @Formidilosus

They are not that I know of. Though they have a mechanical lock like some Trijicons.