A health revolution brewing?

[Weldor]

You can't take diet in isolation from the rest of your life. For instance, focusing on the what foods to eat in something like the "Mediterranean diet" misses the bigger picture of the lifestyle those people live. Food is only part of what is going on. Same with exercise. Do you work 50+ hours at a high stress job and try to balance work with family commitments/events, along with finding time to train, hunt, shoot, etc? It might be that the reason people in a certain region of the world live longer and are healthier might have more to do with working shorter hours, less stress, a solid social life outside of work/family, enjoy a glass of wine outside at a local cafe in the evening with friends, etc.

True, you could live on the dole your whole life like Europe.

 

[180ls1]

Its wild about how ones thoughts on the food they consume is incredibly powerful as well.

There is a good study where they gave identical shakes to two different groups. 1 group was told its healthy and the other was told it was full of sugar. They had significantly different insulin responses. I believe this has been replicated as well.

 

[wesfromky]

True, you could live on the dole your whole life like Europe.

Where did that come from?

There is a huge difference in not working crazy hours or at a stressful job vs being "on the dole". Maybe it is more about making less money, but having more time and less stress. You can still hold a job, pay your taxes, etc and have time to enjoy a healthier lifestyle above and beyond diet.

 

[Weldor]

Where did that come from?

There is a huge difference in not working crazy hours or at a stressful job vs being "on the dole". Maybe it is more about making less money, but having more time and less stress. You can still hold a job, pay your taxes, etc and have time to enjoy a healthier lifestyle above and beyond diet.

Go live there for 10 yrs and get back to me.

 

[fwafwow]

In fairness, I think the article had a valid point. Not all “processed” food is created equal and it’s important to maintain some context in the push to cut back and /or eliminate “processed” foods.

There is a lot of truth to the fact it is more expensive to buy a lot of fresh produce and foods and is also less convenient to prepare them. Does this affect folks of lower economic class more? I’m sure it does.

Not everyone is lazy and some folks are trying to do the best they can with what they have.

All this is not specifically directed at you but rather the conversation in general. I kind of get the vibe Dr Means wants to be offended by the SJW stance of the author.

More later when I have a computer, but no worries even if directed at me.

I do think there is a good point to be made about availability and costs. Perhaps I’ve been rationalizing, but spending “more” on quality foods may mean I eat less overall - at least that seems to be the case for me recently - so maybe the cost differential isn’t as high as I initially thought. It’s still more of a pain compared to Uber Eats, frozen foods, etc.

 

[fwafwow]

Go live there for 10 yrs and get back to me.

Europe is a big place. Which country or countries? Note - I’m not moving anywhere outside of the US (at least unless things change materially). I’m just curious as to whether all of the countries there are viewed as equally problematic

 

[Customweld]

More later when I have a computer, but no worries even if directed at me.

I do think there is a good point to be made about availability and costs. Perhaps I’ve been rationalizing, but spending “more” on quality foods may mean I eat less overall - at least that seems to be the case for me recently - so maybe the cost differential isn’t as high as I initially thought. It’s still more of a pain compared to Uber Eats, frozen foods, etc.

My wife and I talk about that frequently. We are detached form folks that live in small apartments, that don't have fridge or freezer space for fresh or frozen meats or veggies. I've got to think that a lot of these people don't do a lot of meal planning. Not necessarily because of laziness but more so that they just don't have the ability to store a week or two of groceries.

 

[Weldor]

Italy, Spain,Portugal. It's along list. The Brit's are finally getting a economy. The Saudi's hire everything out , check their health LOL.

 

[Weldor]

My wife and I talk about that frequently. We are detached form folks that live in small apartments, that don't have fridge or freezer space for fresh or frozen meats or veggies. I've got to think that a lot of these people don't do a lot of meal planning. Not necessarily because of laziness but more so that they just don't have the ability to store a week or two of groceries.

Absolutely, They do not live in american houses. Tiny fridge ,tiny kitchen. But they do have plenty of fresh food available at many markets. They shop daily or for a few days. Food storage is not a big thing there.

 

[180ls1]

My wife and I talk about that frequently. We are detached form folks that live in small apartments, that don't have fridge or freezer space for fresh or frozen meats or veggies. I've got to think that a lot of these people don't do a lot of meal planning. Not necessarily because of laziness but more so that they just don't have the ability to store a week or two of groceries.

Yeah, great point. Deliberately putting oneself in positions where the correct decision is the default or at least easier is huge. That goes for a lot of things in life.

 

[Customweld]

Yeah, great point. Deliberately putting oneself in positions where the correct decision is the default or at least easier is huge. That goes for a lot of things in life.

We eat a lot of wild game and usually buy a half beef from my cousin. We also put up huge amounts of fruits and berries up every summer. We are pretty spoiled in that regard, good healthy choices out in the garage everyday.

 

[CorbLand]

My wife and I talk about that frequently. We are detached form folks that live in small apartments, that don't have fridge or freezer space for fresh or frozen meats or veggies. I've got to think that a lot of these people don't do a lot of meal planning. Not necessarily because of laziness but more so that they just don't have the ability to store a week or two of groceries.

I went DC for work one time and ran into a couple of the grocery stores looking for an item while I was there. I dont think I saw a single fresh vegetable or fruit item while I was there. Could be that I was in the heart of DC and its mostly hotels and conference centers type area but it did shock me.

Theres a documentary, I cant remember what its called and I never watched it but its about how some of the big population centers dont have produce available and if they do, the cost is significantly higher.

 

[kthomas]

A couple things here…
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but during your career the population has gotten progressively sicker. The reasons for that are multi factor, but the base for it is clearly diet. The experts have been telling us that their “food pyramid” …low fat/high carb diet was essential to good health. You can look at a graph from when they started pushing it 40 something years ago to now and the rate of T2 diabetes, obesity and a host of other chronic illnesses takes off looking like one of Elon Musk’s rockets.
Go into any PCPs practice today and you’ll get the same food pyramid/moderation dietary advice. God forbid you end up in the hospital where the “highly trained dietitian” will serve you the most ultra processed, off the chart high glycemic index garbage they can come up with, but they’re the experts so we shouldn’t question that.
Meanwhile, thousands of people have conquered a myriad of chronic diseases by doing a little research and…I know this is going to sound crazy…reading books. For a lot of us it turns out that disregarding the advice of healthcare’s dietary experts has been a key factor in restoring our health.

Go to a doctor when you are overweight.

See how much time they spend trying to sell you on lifestyle changes that will actually address the root causes, versus them giving you statin and Ozempic prescriptions. 9 out of 10 doctors will spend more focus on the latter.

If they do talk about personal lifestyle changes, it will likely be delivered in some boilerplate template in a monotone delivery.

The American Association of Pediatrics doesn't even believe obesity is a lifestyle disease. That's incredibly troubling. The AMA treats obesity as a chronic illness that should be treated early with drugs that will require you to be on for a lifetime. And these drugs lose weight by reducing muscle and connective tissue - not fat. They do not treat the root cause, but rather mask the symptoms through pharmaceutical intervention (that conveniently makes corporations a lot of money).

My wife works in healthcare, in pathology. We know a decent amount of doctors (especially her). Doctors are just as fallible and corrupt as any other cross-section of society. They will uncritically follow any guidance from an association or institute (like the NIH or FDA) like religious sycophants. Those same associations and institutions are completely captured and co-opted by corporate interests, which seek to maximize profits to your detriment. The whole system is corrupted.

our society makes out doctors to be all-knowing entities that can do no wrong. The reality is that they are generally of fairly average intelligence, and are just as easily corrupted as anyone else. The vast majority of them will go along with the rest of the herd, unquestionably and uncritically following guidance from the leaders of their pack (doctor associations, FDA, NIH, etc).

 

[180ls1]

Those corner stores for "essentials" really break the bank as well.


"Food deserts" is the term they use @CorbLand its often an over parroted trope by the lefties but there is truth to it.

 

[kthomas]

Ive really started going down the rabbit hole of diet this year. I always tried to eat healthy(or what was supposed to be healthy), sometimes succeeding and sometimes not. That said I still succumb to my demons way more than I want as far as food is concerned. Even the so called healthy stuff is not as healthy as it once was, due to GMO, etc.... We are as a society suffering from Glyphosate poisoning, sugar addiction, inflammation from processed foods, etc. Shoot I picked up some vitamins the other day, afterward I read about how those particular ones are made, and threw them away. Nearly all vitamins are chemically produced, and most you can get from your diet if you don't follow the standard american diet (SAD).

When I do what I am supposed to, I try and follow the simple rule that: If it comes in a bag, can, box, or bottle you shouldn't eat it. Obviously there are some caveats to that.... If you can't pronounce it you probably shouldn't eat it. Also starting to lean toward organic. It's not perfect but better than the alternative.

Just think about how our grandparents ate. Meat, potatoes, veggies, maybe fresh homemade bread. Even dessert in moderation. Black coffee, etc.... Look at pics of people in the 40's, 50's, and even the 60's. Everyone is skinny. I really believe the late 40's and 50's started the decline in our diets, and it has only gotten worse.

I do take one cholesterol med (really as an experiment) but have done enough research to know I really probably don't need it and will get some more bloodwork done and will most likely drop it as well if I can get all the rest of my BS in order.

This may be an interesting read for you: https://substack.com/@amidwesterndoctor/p-146062962

 

[Weldor]

I went DC for work one time and ran into a couple of the grocery stores looking for an item while I was there. I dont think I saw a single fresh vegetable or fruit item while I was there. Could be that I was in the heart of DC and its mostly hotels and conference centers type area but it did shock me.

Theres a documentary, I cant remember what its called and I never watched it but its about how some of the big population centers dont have produce available and if they do, the cost is significantly higher.

The city of Detroit does not have a single big name supermarket.

 

[fwafwow]

I went DC for work one time and ran into a couple of the grocery stores looking for an item while I was there. I dont think I saw a single fresh vegetable or fruit item while I was there. Could be that I was in the heart of DC and its mostly hotels and conference centers type area but it did shock me.

Theres a documentary, I cant remember what its called and I never watched it but its about how some of the big population centers dont have produce available and if they do, the cost is significantly higher.

Sorry I’m too lazy to scroll back up on my phone, but someone made the point that even fresh veggies are suspect due to what’s sprayed on them. I’ve ordered some meats that are said to be from a regenerative farm, grass fed, etc. What is the best approach for vegetables? I could go to a farmers market, but who is to say those farmers don’t spray too? I guess if one there advertises they don’t, then if I trust a meat farmer I should trust a vegetable farmer

 

[Weldor]

Depends on your location. I have friends in Nebraska with a few large greenhouses. They sell out out all the time. Try to find a farmers market and check around on web. Can you grow your own?

 

[180ls1]

Sorry I’m too lazy to scroll back up on my phone, but someone made the point that even fresh veggies are suspect due to what’s sprayed on them. I’ve ordered some meats that are said to be from a regenerative farm, grass fed, etc. What is the best approach for vegetables? I could go to a farmers market, but who is to say those farmers don’t spray too? I guess if one there advertises they don’t, then if I trust a meat farmer I should trust a vegetable farmer

Its a massive rabbit hole.

Some support GMO, yes, support. Being that its more resistant to bugs and other loss they don't need to use as many chemicals.

Some hate GMO, pretty self explanatory.

Some say shop local farmers markets, however, fake-organic and fake-fertilizer free produce is sold all the time.

You possibly can grow your own or find a local that you trust is probably best.

My wife and I focus on growing our income and buy store bought organic and let the chips fall where they may. This is the best tradeoff for us at the moment.

 

[CorbLand]

Sorry I’m too lazy to scroll back up on my phone, but someone made the point that even fresh veggies are suspect due to what’s sprayed on them. I’ve ordered some meats that are said to be from a regenerative farm, grass fed, etc. What is the best approach for vegetables? I could go to a farmers market, but who is to say those farmers don’t spray too? I guess if one there advertises they don’t, then if I trust a meat farmer I should trust a vegetable farmer

Dont ask me, I am far from an expert. Best bet would probably be growing your own.

When it comes to food. I just try to eat the best I can with the funds and time I have available. My mom is horrible. She eats like garbage, doesn't exercise, nothing. My cousin is the other end of the spectrum. He counts everything he eats, spends hours a day in the gym. I figure if I am some where in between those two, I am probably doing ok.