A Different Colorado OTC Thread

[Britts_Gap]

This Sept I am planning on hunting the Early Archery Elk Season on an OTC tag in Colorado from Sept 15-30. I have never hunted big game and so this will be a new experience. I grew up duck hunting and recently got big into bow hunting whitetail. A lot of what I've found online has been the same old "Is this a good unit? What is a good unit to hunt? Where should I hunt?" I'm not here to ask those questions.
I want to know they "why" and "where". Why do elk do what they do during this time? Educate me on their movements and their actions. Where do they go at what times of the day and why? I don't mean specific locations. I mean elevation and terrain. Habitat that they frequent based on conditions at the time. What exactly is the elk rut like and when does it take place? Does elevation have an impact on this?
I DO NOT want you secret spot. School me on elk biology. I just walked into my first day of school so school me up!! Any tips and techniques to be used for e scouting are appreciated as well! Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

 

[5MilesBack]

There are a lot of elk biology and ecology resources out there. One of the best is hard to find these days.......or expensive, but you can find it here: https://www.amazon.com/Elk-North-America-Ecology-Management/dp/0811705714.

Even a cliff notes version would be large.

 

[wapitispokes]

I'm sure you'll get some great tips, but I suggest you buy a book because I think you would benefit from that much information.

One tip, mind the wind and understand the local impact of prevailing winds, updrafts, downdrafts, vortexes across ridge tops, etc. Example: You'll get an updraft on an east or south facing slope late on a sunny morning but until much later in the day, a cold torrent of wind will blow down the backside of that ridge into the spruce where the elk are most likely bedded.

Tips: The details depend on location, season, weather conditions, micro and macro climate, drought conditions, topography, hunting pressure, etc.

Do you plan to go back into a wilderness that is "less" disturbed and hunt around 10,000 feet (that is where my experience comes from), or something else?

Are you satisfied with any elk, cow or bull, or a "nice bull" only?

Since I'm sure lots of folks will give advice, and I hope you buy a good book, I'll offer two other pieces of advice:

1) if at all possible take a week or two during late summer to scout the area you intend to hunt.

2) My experience has been that, in the area I hunt in CO, the rut tends to go into high gear around 9/14. The mountains tend to be over-run with hunters that week (muzzle and archery). Around Thurs/Fri of Muzzle week, most hunters pull out or are too tired or too cold and wet to hunt. By Fri/Sat of that week elk tend to return to areas they vacated when the muzzleloaders came in.

So, your timing should be good (but I normally try to arrive in CO at least 3 days before my first hunt day).

Also, if at altitude, plan on some snow during that period. The week after muzzleloader has sometimes delivered a bunch of snow when I've been hunting. I've been doing this in CO for over 30 years, and the Fall's have been getting noticeably warmer during that time, but every year is a crapshoot.

In the old days, before all the online tools, I would identify a wilderness area or unit that seemed desirable on some basis. I would then study topographical maps and identify areas that were already remote, but within the remote areas included trail-less blocks at least 2 miles square with water and "topography" inside that block.

I would also identify areas meeting those characteristics that were at least one and ideally two passes away from the nearest trail. In the old days I also tried to identify drainages that were "harder" to get lost in. Today, with good GPS devices, it is less important to find non-maze like terrain.

The two pass rule seems more important for big mule deer, but is helpful also for elk. The one pass rule seems adequate for elk under light pressure. Big country with limited trail penetration can hold good elk absent the one pass rule. These days you can easily use something like "Caltopo" for the map work, but once you get on-site it never looks like what you expected if it is mountainous country.

If you are planning to haul out an elk on your back - scotch the one and two pass rule. In that case, I apply the "look for a downhill exit rule". LOL.

 

[Britts_Gap]

There are a lot of elk biology and ecology resources out there. One of the best is hard to find these days.......or expensive, but you can find it here: https://www.amazon.com/Elk-North-America-Ecology-Management/dp/0811705714.

Even a cliff notes version would be large.

Man thats one expensive book but I bet it has a ton of great information. Maybe I can find a cliff notes or a summary online. Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[wapitispokes]

I'll bet that book would be available from a library. And nobody uses libraries anymore, so it might actually be available for checkout!

 

[Britts_Gap]

I'm sure you'll get some great tips, but I suggest you buy a book because I think you would benefit from that much information.

One tip, mind the wind and understand the local impact of prevailing winds, updrafts, downdrafts, vortexes across ridge tops, etc. Example: You'll get an updraft on an east or south facing slope late on a sunny morning but until much later in the day, a cold torrent of wind will blow down the backside of that ridge into the spruce where the elk are most likely bedded.

Tips: The details depend on location, season, weather conditions, micro and macro climate, drought conditions, topography, hunting pressure, etc.

Do you plan to go back into a wilderness that is "less" disturbed and hunt around 10,000 feet (that is where my experience comes from), or something else?

Are you satisfied with any elk, cow or bull, or a "nice bull" only?

Since I'm sure lots of folks will give advice, and I hope you buy a good book, I'll offer two other pieces of advice:

1) if at all possible take a week or two during late summer to scout the area you intend to hunt.

2) My experience has been that, in the area I hunt in CO, the rut tends to go into high gear around 9/14. The mountains tend to be over-run with hunters that week (muzzle and archery). Around Thurs/Fri of Muzzle week, most hunters pull out or are too tired or too cold and wet to hunt. By Fri/Sat of that week elk tend to return to areas they vacated when the muzzleloaders came in.

So, your timing should be good (but I normally try to arrive in CO at least 3 days before my first hunt day).

Also, if at altitude, plan on some snow during that period. The week after muzzleloader has sometimes delivered a bunch of snow when I've been hunting. I've been doing this in CO for over 30 years, and the Fall's have been getting noticeably warmer during that time, but every year is a crapshoot.

In the old days, before all the online tools, I would identify a wilderness area or unit that seemed desirable on some basis. I would then study topographical maps and identify areas that were already remote, but within the remote areas included trail-less blocks at least 2 miles square with water and "topography" inside that block.

I would also identify areas meeting those characteristics that were at least one and ideally two passes away from the nearest trail. In the old days I also tried to identify drainages that were "harder" to get lost in. Today, with good GPS devices, it is less important to find non-maze like terrain.

The two pass rule seems more important for big mule deer, but is helpful also for elk. The one pass rule seems adequate for elk under light pressure. Big country with limited trail penetration can hold good elk absent the one pass rule. These days you can easily use something like "Caltopo" for the map work, but once you get on-site it never looks like what you expected if it is mountainous country.

If you are planning to haul out an elk on your back - scotch the one and two pass rule. In that case, I apply the "look for a downhill exit rule". LOL

To answer a few of your questions I do plan on trying to get get away from the crowds but I am also realistic and understand that is much easier said than done. I have identified a few units I am interested in (Unit 43, 471) and they seem to be higher in elevation around the 10k mark just from studying topo maps of the areas.
When it comes to the elk I would obviously like to kill a trophy as we all would every time we went out but again I am realistic and if it is the last day and I had a chance at a healthy cow I'm not passing up the opportunity! I'm no stranger to packing weight on my back, the Marine Corps made sure of that, and I've really started to ramp up weights and rucking now. I refuse to let my fitness be the reason I can't get it done!
What exactly is the one and two pass rule?? Any books you personally recommend?

 

[wapitispokes]

I know 471 well and have some knowledge of 43.

I suggested 471 as a possibility to someone last year and they went for it based on their assessment that access would be relatively easy. Access seemed to be their main criteria. It was a bust for him because 1) monster snowstorm right before he arrived (that is a known risk in that unit and at least in the 1980's hunter success was low in later seasons due to early and deep snow - that is what the local biologist told me in the 1980's). and 2) anecdotally, the pressure in the spot he hit was way up over what it was like when I hunted the unit frequently 20+ years ago. Our focus in that unit was early season mule deer, but we typically saw a few elk. I remember one bull with an arrow sticking out of its shoulder....it appeared not to have penetrated the scapula.

An issue with 471 where we hunted is that given the topography, somewhat light pressure can push the elk out or into hard to hunt areas (steep, cliffy). Nowadays I try to find areas that if hunting pressure is high, I can move out a bit.

 

[Britts_Gap]

I know 471 well and have some knowledge of 43.

I suggested 471 as a possibility to someone last year and they went for it based on their assessment that access would be relatively easy. Access seemed to be their main criteria. It was a bust for him because 1) monster snowstorm right before he arrived (that is a known risk in that unit and at least in the 1980's hunter success was low in later seasons due to early and deep snow - that is what the local biologist told me in the 1980's). and 2) anecdotally, the pressure in the spot he hit was way up over what it was like when I hunted the unit frequently 20+ years ago. Our focus in that unit was early season mule deer, but we typically saw a few elk. I remember one bull with an arrow sticking out of its shoulder....it appeared not to have penetrated the scapula.

An issue with 471 where we hunted is that given the topography, somewhat light pressure can push the elk out or into hard to hunt areas (steep, cliffy). Nowadays I try to find areas that if hunting pressure is high, I can move out a bit.

That is something I've read a lot about, pressure and how it can push elk either onto private property or difficult to hunt areas. Thanks for all the information! I really appreciate the help.

 

[cnelk]

Here ya go. My buddy wrote this book.

Amazon.com: Public Land Elk Hunting eBook : Dworak, Matthew, Conley, Autumn : Kindle Store

Buy Public Land Elk Hunting: Read Kindle Store Reviews - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[Gerbdog]

As said, lots of information in books and even online, there are a few "elk biology" information guides online out there as well. Check out Elk101 as well if you get a chance, just google it.

As for where and why during Sept 15-30th.... They are just coming off the first 2 weeks of archery and Muzzleloader in Colorado, this advice sucks but it means so much: "They are going to be where they dont feel the hunting pressure" which could mean anything depending on the terrain and unit. When hunting pressure is introduced at the start of Sept it pushes the elk out of all the "ideal, there should be elk here, why arent there elk here" spots.

 

[Huntsman21]

This is exciting, congrats on the decision to go for it! That free Kindle book from Cnelk looks awesome.

Everything above sounds like great advice.

To go along with that, you will find the terrain looks a lot different when you're in person. Most of the times I find hot wallows or small hidden bedding benches when I'm chasing bugles. Some of these places are just way too hard/random to find otherwise. Therefore, I'd consider hunting in a spot you might want to hunt for a few years to get to know the area.

Also, if it looks at all steep online, be prepared for it to be an absolute crusher in real life. I can't tell you how many people I've met that physically exhaust themselves just trying to get to the place where they want to camp, let alone hunt. Then, they're too exhausted to hunt well (which takes much more energy than the hike in). I know you say you're in great physical shape and have tons of experience with heavy packs. If the terrain look at all steep where you choose, be prepared for it to be your greatest physical test yet. Most of the people I meet deep in the backcountry look like they're in top physical condition. Yet, because they exhaust themselves on the hike in, their hunt turns into a campout, then they leave 3 or 4 days early, physically exhausted, without ever having a real intentional shot opportunity.

One "don't": I seem to frequently see people new to the areas silhouetting themselves on ridgelines, just like you would see someone doing on Instagram. Or even worse, I see people camped on the saddles that elk frequent, just like they see people doing on Instagram. Don't do this. Hide your campsite and keep a low profile. Pretend to be a predator and crawl over the ridgelines, even if you don't think anything is around for miles. If you silhouette yourself or camp on a ridgeline, every animal in the adjacent basins will see you, even if you can't see them, and you will ruin your hunt before it ever starts. Then you will physically crush yourself, get discouraged thinking there aren't any animals around, and you will go home early.

During the time you're looking to hunt, elk will have already been pressured likely numerous times by hunters. Keep that in mind when selecting potential hunting locations.

I recommend remaining as nimble as possible, so you can stay moving until you know you're in the elk. In other words, consider carefully every little thing you put in your pack.

I can not overemphasize physical conditioning enough. Be ready to walk off trail all day as long as it takes to get it done. Then be ready to carry an elk off the mountain after you've reached your physical limit (if by yourself, that's probably 5 back and forth trips to get it all handled). If you're two miles from your car, consider that 5 back and forth trips is the equivalent to about 18 miles of packout (10 of which are loaded with meat). Based on where you are hunting, have an honest conversation with yourself about the reality of being able to do that.

That's just a couple thoughts - Sounds daunting, I know, but I'm excited for you. This is why shooting any elk with a bow in this manner is one of the hardest things you might ever do. This will be a ton of fun. Good luck!

- Edit - A ton of Type 2 fun, if you're into that sort of thing.

 

[Indian Summer]

September 15-30 is NOT the early archery season. 5-20 sounds better especially with the muzzleloader season there.

 

[Deerhunter6250]

I wouldn't pass up a cow on the first day if you would shoot it on the last. Some times if your lucky you only get one chance at a bull or cow. Be mentally prepared as well as physically. Look for places other people wouldn't go. These can even be small overlooked areas not that far in. Good Luck

 

[trophyhill]

Elk can be found from the bottom of the mountain to above tree line obviously during the whole month of September. Generally speaking, The cows will dictate the movement. Although here lately you have to consider hunting pressure will also dictate movement. Hot cows equal bugling bulls. Cold cows equals silent elk.

typically the elk are moving up in the mornings and down in the evenings in the areas I frequent in CO. If you can beat them to where they want to be in either scenario, advantage hunter. The downside to that supposedly is the wind. The way I fight that is to be on the same plain and not be above or below them when I can.

there are way too many tactics for success. Like has been said countless times, there’s more than one way to skin an elk. And experience definitely teaches us that. If someone says their way is best, or don’t call, or only call, or only bugle, or only spot n stalk, or only run n gun, or only cow call, don’t listen to them. These are the guys who only have confidence doing one thing and are 1 dimensional.

Not saying some of these guys aren’t successful, but what works for one guy, might not for the next. Don’t get yourself trapped into being one dimensional. You have to have the encounters and gain experience before you will truly understand the elk game if starting from scratch. Luckily for me I had some great mentors.

many don’t want anything to do with learning The Who what why and when elk do what they do. They only care about bugling elk and miss out on the ecology part. Those who do care to learn these things I think gain a bigger understanding of the big picture in the elk world.

Understanding an elks life from the time it is born until the time it dies of old age or predation or disease or malnutrition or any other host of reasons and how different situations affect an elks behavior at different times in their lives is quite fascinating to me personally.

As I said, many could care less about that stuff, but learning and knowing that stuff definitely can play a part in ones success and failures. And you will fail. But the right mindset will turn failed attempts and blown opportunities into successes. That I can say without doubt. Goodluck!

 

[eltaco]

The most accurate advice I’d ever been given is “You can’t kill elk if you’re not where they’re at”. Such ridiculously simple advice, yet you’ll find many people hunting elk who can’t seem to find elk. It’s perpetual misfortune.

I’ve hunted elk now for 13yrs and even encountered this last year in an area I know extremely well. Worked my arse off for 2 days in areas generally packed with elk and saw absolutely nothing for fresh sign or animal sightings, aside from one cow. I had to make a big change in strategy and realized elk had mostly moved into private ground. I ended up hunting that private boundary for the rest of the trip and was fortunate to kill my bull a couple of days later. Still a very tough hunt given the circumstances, but had I followed my previous experience and just stayed where the elk “should have been”, I’m certain I wouldn’t have ended up with an elk. That plan was not as enjoyable as the one I set out on... but it’s what was necessary to be successful. Another year, another lesson learned.

Elk hunting is tough, and from my perspective, it’s getting tougher each year. More an more pressure means areas I’ve had good success in have a new set of rules each year. I come into an area one year with 2 other people hunting it, and sometimes I find 20 trucks at the trailhead. No exaggeration... you may end up on your plan C starting on day one... so plan for multiple options.

Another lesson I learned early is regarding escouting. Google Earth has a setting called “elevation exaggeration”, just go ahead and set that to 1.7 to 2.0. It’ll give you a much better idea of what you’re up against. There’s steep, and there’s impassable, and it’s imperative you can discern the difference.

I’ve gotten myself into some really stupid situations by seeking to get to a specific “perfect spot”. I don’t suppose I’ll ever get over this aspect... there’s always something in my head telling me there must be elk over that next ridge. I suppose that drive also leads to my success, but make sure you’re equipped to go over that next ridge if you so choose. Some of those paths lead you on overnight adventures, and it’s a truly crappy situation trying to pack a bull up the back side of a mountain in pouring rain at 3am because you didn’t bring your overnight gear.

Go with a partner on your first trip. You’ll enjoy the adventure more together, and have somebody to share in the successes and lessons learned.

Shoot whatever makes you happy, but be realistic with your goals. A 300” bull on OTC is tough to come by in my experiences. A rag horn may just be the biggest bull you encounter, but they can come in on calls with as much rage as a giant herd bull. If a rutting bull comes in screaming to me in September on an OTC hunt, I’m pulling the trigger... that experience is all I’m after, no matter the size of the bull. On a LE tag, I’m afforded the option to be more selective and still have high odds of success.

Bring an inReach to make sure those you care about back home have guaranteed contact with you on the daily.

 

[Britts_Gap]

I really appreciate all the great info guys! I know that this definitely will be a challenge but thats exactly what I'm looking for. I'm really looking forward to getting out there for the first time and learning all I can about elk and their habitat. To me just learning about the animal is one of the most interesting parts of the whole experience. I'm trying to keep my gear minimal and light so that I can move quicker and easier through the timber.
I've read in multiple other places too that guys spend so much time trying to find a camp area that they wear themselves out and can't even hunt. I'm hoping I can avoid that by staying on the move and actually hunting and not just hiking around looking for a camping spot.
I've also read that some guys don't camp in the backcountry and instead make a loop through a different drainage each day, ending back at their truck for the night, until they find an elk. If they don't find elk they drive to a new area/drainage/basin that night and repeat the process the next day. Is this a style best utilized by guys that have experience or something that should be mostly ignored all together?

 

[eltaco]

I really appreciate all the great info guys! I know that this definitely will be a challenge but thats exactly what I'm looking for. I'm really looking forward to getting out there for the first time and learning all I can about elk and their habitat. To me just learning about the animal is one of the most interesting parts of the whole experience. I'm trying to keep my gear minimal and light so that I can move quicker and easier through the timber.
I've read in multiple other places too that guys spend so much time trying to find a camp area that they wear themselves out and can't even hunt. I'm hoping I can avoid that by staying on the move and actually hunting and not just hiking around looking for a camping spot.
I've also read that some guys don't camp in the backcountry and instead make a loop through a different drainage each day, ending back at their truck for the night, until they find an elk. If they don't find elk they drive to a new area/drainage/basin that night and repeat the process the next day. Is this a style best utilized by guys that have experience or something that should be mostly ignored all together?

I hunt with both techniques depending on the area, and I’m glad you brought this question up. Too many people walk past elk trying to get to their camp location. Ive literally shot one bull within 100yds of a road, and have shot multiple within a half mile. I’ll guarantee you I’ve done the opposite and walked past herds of elk trying to get to some magical spot, only to find other people already there or absolutely no elk in that area.

Sometimes you need to backpack in for a certain area to get to where the elk are. If that’s the case, it makes for a lot of extra boot travel to go from/to your car camping spot every day. You can add up miles fast and burn up your testing hours in the process.

In other scenarios, it would be foolish to hump a camp back a couple of miles if there was fantastic elk hunting to be had 1/2mi from the truck.

Keep both tools in your elk hunting toolbelt and hunt elk wherever they are.

 

[trophyhill]

If truck camping, the only thing you need to look for is enough room to park your pickup. Many advantages to this. You are extremely mobile. You can make your bed and actually sleep good. You can get clean and refreshed. Clean clothes and socks n underwear. You don’t have to filter water. You can eat real food. Your eggs aren’t all in 1 basket. You can cover much more ground. You don’t have to spend mucho dineros buying backcountry gear which allows you to focus on killing, not camping. I certainly would not discourage truck camp.

 

[FlyGuy]

This Sept I am planning on hunting the Early Archery Elk Season on an OTC tag in Colorado from Sept 15-30. I have never hunted big game and so this will be a new experience. I grew up duck hunting and recently got big into bow hunting whitetail. A lot of what I've found online has been the same old "Is this a good unit? What is a good unit to hunt? Where should I hunt?" I'm not here to ask those questions.
I want to know they "why" and "where". Why do elk do what they do during this time? Educate me on their movements and their actions. Where do they go at what times of the day and why? I don't mean specific locations. I mean elevation and terrain. Habitat that they frequent based on conditions at the time. What exactly is the elk rut like and when does it take place? Does elevation have an impact on this?
I DO NOT want you secret spot. School me on elk biology. I just walked into my first day of school so school me up!! Any tips and techniques to be used for e scouting are appreciated as well! Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

Welcome to the addiction! Appreciate how you started this out. Those are great questions, but not the easiest to answer and you will get a lot of differing opinions. Two resources that immediately come to mind. One is Randy Newburgh. He has a great YouTube video about finding elk through the year. Pre-rut, rut, post rut, winter etc. he also shows how he would approach a unit differently in each season thru digital scouting with OnX and google earth. That is well worth your time to review and can get you started.

The second one is Elk101. That should be required reading for anyone starting out. Sign up for the course and dive in. It will take you several months to work your way thru all the material Corey has put together, but it is a comprehensive database of information on all topics (draw systems, how to select a unit, calling strategies, wind, hunt strategies, butchering and meat care, arrow placement...).

This site has a ton of information and very helpful members, but you just can’t beat elk101 because it is so comprehensive and so well organized, and done by one of the very best.





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[FlyGuy]

I hunt with both techniques depending on the area, and I’m glad you brought this question up. Too many people walk past elk trying to get to their camp location. Ive literally shot one bull within 100yds of a road, and have shot multiple within a half mile. I’ll guarantee you I’ve done the opposite and walked past herds of elk trying to get to some magical spot, only to find other people already there or absolutely no elk in that area.

Sometimes you need to backpack in for a certain area to get to where the elk are. If that’s the case, it makes for a lot of extra boot travel to go from/to your car camping spot every day. You can add up miles fast and burn up your testing hours in the process.

In other scenarios, it would be foolish to hump a camp back a couple of miles if there was fantastic elk hunting to be had 1/2mi from the truck.

Keep both tools in your elk hunting toolbelt and hunt elk wherever they are.

On any given hunt I typically utilize a mixture of both. Each has its merits and drawbacks, and I pick what’s best for the situation that day.

Starting out tho, truck camping is a less daunting way to break into it. Gear doesn’t have to be light (expensive), way more comfortable, far more mobile. I’d plan to do that for at least a few nights to begin with. Then, as you get more comfortable you can try an overnighter spike camp. Your first year isn’t really about getting an elk, it’s about gaining experience.





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