9mm for deer hunting?

[long hunter]

I've read about when hitting a 12-inch plate was awesome.

YEP AT 10 YARDS, SOMETHING THERE TO BRAG ABOUT.

 

[Rich M]

This is peak gobbledygook.

Ethics is not tied to losing deer.

It's tied to taking good shots.

The argument made was losing 4 deer for every one retrieved. Thats what i was responding to.

Ethics should be tied to retrieving deer. It is all part if the game. Good shot = dead deer. Poor shot selection or ability = lost deer.

Topic was 9mm handgun at close range.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Yes.

So I'm not sure why you dragged bowhunting into it.

But again: ethics are tied to the action--"the shot" (appropriate weapon and specs) --- not the result (recovery/non-recovery).

If you can't retrieve most of the deer you shoot, something's wrong: shot selection, self-control, skill, accuracy, equipment, follow-up, tracking skill, etc.

But you are only in control of your actions. Sometimes the end result is out of your control.

There will be more sleepless nights shooting 9mm cc pistols at deer than not.

 

[Rich M]

Yes.

So I'm not sure why you dragged bowhunting into it.

But again: ethics are tied to the action--"the shot" (appropriate weapon and specs) --- not the result (recovery/non-recovery).

If you can't retrieve most of the deer you shoot, something's wrong: shot selection, self-control, skill, accuracy, equipment, follow-up, tracking skill, etc.

But you are only in control of your actions. Sometimes the end result is out of your control.

There will be more sleepless nights shooting 9mm cc pistols at deer than not.

I can say that OP wanted to do it once.

ethics mean you do the right thing the right way and are 100% tied into retrieval of the deer. Anyone can punch holes in em and watch em run off. That’s not ethical.

Why are you so sure you cant get it done? I have no such qualms. You get to choose range and select your shot angle and all that. Why do you feel you can’t kill a deer w 9mm pistol?

I never said it was a great round, but it’s just a deer. 100-150# pine goat. Are they wearing kevlar these days?

 

[Swamp Fox]

I have never said or implied that "you can't get it done."

But now that you've planted your flag on "It's just a deer. 100-150# pine goat." ...

 

[NFokas]

I’m about to buy a pistol to conceal carry but I was thinking would it be unethical for me to shoot a deer with it? I could easily limit my shot to under 50 yards. If so what ammo should I use? NOTE I’m not dedicating this to deer hunting I’ll probably only shoot one deer with it and my curiosity would be satisfied. Thanks in advance

I've lurked this forum for a while off and on and never posted, just made an account for the first time because I found this thread so disconcerting. I'm a novice hunter myself, only 2 seasons under my belt, but have been a pretty big gun guy for a long time now, and I like to think I'm pretty good at putting a shot where it needs to go when I know my holds.

This is really stupid and I think you need to check your attitude and your motivations. Ditto to anyone acting like it's "just a deer". I'm going to assume that you don't have much experience shooting handguns at all if you don't own one yet, and even then I'd estimate 90% of pistol owners don't shoot more than 100-200 rounds per year. Pistol shooting is not rifle shooting. It is an inherently less stable firearm with generally more gross sighting. Yes, there are dedicated hunting handguns which I think can be used quite effectively, usually larger bore revolvers with magnified scopes mounted. These are inherently very accurate and when used by a skilled shooter at a reasonable range can be quite effective.

Most semi-auto 9mm pistols are not capable of the same degree of accuracy purely as a result of their simpler sights and non-fixed barrels. Even so, generally the people who own those 9mm handguns cannot shoot anywhere near the mechanical limits of the pistols themselves, and certainly not at even typical distances for eastern whitetail. And this is talking about the controlled environment of a shooting range, not out in the field where weather, fatigue, nerves, and perhaps caffeine shakes are going to undermine you. People in this thread have mentioned pistol-mounted red dot sights, and these can be quite useful (when warmed up I can pretty consistently hit a 12" plate at ~125yd with one), but they only provide you a finer aiming point- they will not make up for the poor technique that almost all novice pistol shooters demonstrate. I have shot several hundred rounds per month through 9mm pistols for a few years now and I still would not trust myself or anyone who trains at a lesser rate to try something like this beyond trad bow distances. I know some much more skilled shooters than me, mostly professional instructors, who can shoot to a reasonable enough standard that I would trust them to do something like this- but the catch is that they're all mature enough to use something more suitable for the job.

I'm hesitant to speak about this at all, because I'm pretty new to hunting and I would really only consider myself a low-intermediate level shooter (although I'm sure I train more than probably 99% of gun owners out there). I really don't consider myself an authority by any means. But some of the talk in this thread is just ridiculous. I get the impression that a lot of hunters are like cops, in that they shoot a couple of times per year and convince themselves that they know more than they really do.

Yes, you theoretically could make this work and if you understand even the fundamentals you can probably kill and recover a deer. But the likelihood that you maim the animal or cause it great and undue suffering is extremely high unless you are very skilled, which you almost certainly are not. If that doesn't bother you enough to dissuade you, I think you really need to rethink your values and motives. I hope that before long, you are embarrassed to have thought up this scenario.

 

[ZAP035]

It can be done ethically and effectively so long as you set reasonable limits to your skills and the platform you’re using (like every hunting situation ever). If I were to use my g19 for instance, I would choose the hornady monoflex handgun hunter load. ~95% weight retention and 20”+ penetration. Expanded diameter around 0.6”-0.68”. Have a very solid rest (I like a good heavy bag), and definitely would want a quality precise red dot. Limit range to 25-30 yards assuming you can place 5 rounds in a group of about 4”. And only choose good broadside shots offering double lung. Handgun hunting terminal performance isn’t like rifles. It’s somewhere between rifle and bow. Energy doesn’t kill, exsanguination does. So long as you have the penetration, diameter, and accuracy required you will have a dead deer.

 

[Rich M]

I have never said or implied that "you can't get it done."

But now that you've planted your flag on "It's just a deer. 100-150# pine goat." ...

That’s what a deer is around here.

The guy basically said one and done, folks got excited. This really isnt a big deal.

 

[WKB]

Paul Harrell killed a deer once with a .25 acp...

In all seriousness, if you poke a hole(s) in the vitals, it will leak and eventually die. This is no different than a bow shot deer. Energy in pistols does not kill. The permanent cavity tissue damage leading to blood loss, and lack of blood/oxygen to the brain(hypoxia) is what kills. This is created by the ability of the round to penetrate through soft tissue. Penetration is simply a factor of sectional density X velocity, with the added element of projectile deformation and tissue resistance. This is why we have things like the FBI penetration standards, which shows that almost all pistol rounds penetrate about the same. Some rounds (FMJ, hard cast, +p, etc,) exceed the standard, and some (glaser safety slug, soft lead HP) do not.
Anyone suggesting that 357 or 10mm is sufficient/ethical for deer while pooh poohing a 9mm is simply not educated/trained enough. The largest handgun cartridges still generate waayy less energy than the smallest centerfire rifle cartridges.

keep your shots close (defensive pistol distance ~10 yards), broadside, and in the lungs.