8x32 vs 8x42 vs 9x45

[Tall_Vol44]

Ok. Recently got into upgrading optics from monarch 7 & viper hd. Started with Maven B2 9x45. Then upgraded spotter to a kowa 883 (then found a deal on a 554 so added that as well) Then wanted a smaller 8x. Went with the kowa Genesis 8x33 & they give a fantastic sharp image in the center. I found on a tripod, they lose that sharpness quickly moving out from the center of the glass though. The biggest issues with the genesis were glassing around 200-300 yards at maybe 30ish minutes before sundown they got a little sketchy in being able to pick out points and judge a rack & the more annoying issue is I find them difficult to get behind compared to the mavens. So picked up a pair of meostars on black Friday sale. They seemed brighter to my eyes than the kowa, but we're definitely not as clear, or maybe sharp... Whatever you want to call it. I prefer the kowa's over the meostars, even though the meostars were a little easier to get behind. I'll be either returning them or selling them shortly.

So that brings me to my thought/question...
Am I expecting too much from a 8x30-ish set of binos? I've found some 8x32 sv Swaro field pro for what I consider a decent price around 1600. Am I going to see a legit upgrade in brightness and retain the clarity in the Swaros vs the kowa? My play funds have grown thin over the last 3 or 4 months upgrading optics and packs, so I'd like a good idea before I pull the trigger on the Swaros. I'd also have to send them to outdoorsmans to get a stud installed.

If I'm expecting too much from the 8x30ish bins, where do I go next? I really wanted something Small with big fov for whitetail in the east and for just general purpose use for anything I get into. If I get on big fields here, I take the mavens, as I can see and ID deer later than I can with my scopes.

(Not completely unrelated and maybe this will play into recommendations, but I'm looking into either a 12x50 Swaro El or maybe a 15x maven b5 or SLC to complete the optic collection for the foreseeable future. But I'll definitely have to sell some toys before going up in magnification.)

As always, Thanks in advance for the thoughts and opinions!

 

[dreamingWest]

The 8x32 EL is a fine binocular if you want something compact for eastern whitetails. It's what I use in a treestand. In very low light, my 10x42 SLCs are superior for judging antlers. So regardless of having nearly the same exit pupil, twilight factor matters for field judging animals.

I've never looked through the Kowa Genesis 8x33 so I can't say if the ELs will be a good upgrade for your eyes. I do think you will find the ELs will maintain resolution all the way to the edge of the glass.

If you're wanting to field judge during twilight, but with a smaller bino than the Maven B2s, I'd suggest the best pair of compact 10x42s you can afford.

 

[Matt G.]

I was in your same boat and picked up the 8.5 x42 els. So far so good. I think the only thing to trump them is the nl pure. The balance in hand is nice and they feel smaller in hand then they are. I had the meostar too.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 

[Spiral Horn]

Unfortunately, the laws of physics do enforce limitations on relative brightness that can be squeezed from different objectives. On average, a very good 42 or 50mm glass will be brighter in low light conditions than the very best 32mm. So, yes, it is unlikely the 32mm ELSV will solve the issue or significantly outperform the Kowa in low light.

Every optics decision is a compromise of features to differing degrees. I‘m a big fan of small-for-their-objective-size hunting binoculars and it has served me well. Since price appears to be a factor = (1) for a forest glass I’m a big fan of the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42. The optics are crisp and very bright, but it has the weight and handling characteristics similar to a 32mm. (2) for an all-around hunting binocular I’d recommend selling the B2 9x45 and buying the new Maven B6 10x50. I’ve owned both and to me the B6 is superior in virtually every way, smaller/lighter/sharper/brighter, with much better ergonomics/haptics. The B6 is a 50mm in the size/weight range of a 42mm and will absolutely outperform a smaller glass in low light.

Also, I’m not a fan of 12x binoculars. To me, the marginal 2x magnification benefit doesn’t outweigh the increase in hand-shake. There are better options for both a tripod based and hand held glass.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

 

[Tall_Vol44]

Unfortunately, the laws of physics do enforce limitations on relative brightness that can be squeezed from different objectives. On average, a very good 42 or 50mm glass will be brighter in low light conditions than the very best 32mm. So, yes, it is unlikely the 32mm ELSV will solve the issue or significantly outperform the Kowa in low light.

Every optics decision is a compromise of features to differing degrees. I‘m a big fan of small-for-their-objective-size hunting binoculars and it has served me well. Since price appears to be a factor = (1) for a forest glass I’m a big fan of the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42. The optics are crisp and very bright, but it has the weight and handling characteristics similar to a 32mm. (2) for an all-around hunting binocular I’d recommend selling the B2 9x45 and buying the new Maven B6 10x50. I’ve owned both and to me the B6 is superior in virtually every way, smaller/lighter/sharper/brighter, with much better ergonomics/haptics. The B6 is a 50mm in the size/weight range of a 42mm and will absolutely outperform a smaller glass in low light.

Also, I’m not a fan of 12x binoculars. To me, the marginal 2x magnification benefit doesn’t outweigh the increase in hand-shake. There are better options for both a tripod based and hand held glass.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

I hadn't thought about the b6 vs the B2. I may demo them and see how they compare. The B2s have impressed me though.

 

[Tall_Vol44]

Ended up getting the Swaro 8x32. Will be my first "alpha" bins. So if anything will work in this size, it'll be these hopefully.

 

[MattB355]

Great choice! I have both the 8x32 and 10x42 EL and I cannot tell the difference in low light performance between the two. I have compared them back to back long after the sun set. For deep sky astronomy, the 10x42's can resolve more detail and bring in more light but for hunting, I am unable to tell the difference.

 

[Tall_Vol44]

Great choice! I have both the 8x32 and 10x42 EL and I cannot tell the difference in low light performance between the two. I have compared them back to back long after the sun set. For deep sky astronomy, the 10x42's can resolve more detail and bring in more light but for hunting, I am unable to tell the difference.

That's actually nice to hear. I was still on the fence whether they would work for me, and was beginning to have buyers remorse before even getting them in hand! You've set my mind at ease now.

I'm kind of hoping they're not too-too much better because then I'll need to upgrade my B2 "upgrades" sooner than later.

 

[MattB355]

I am sure you will be satisfied. The 8x32's EL are my favorite pair. They are the perfect size and the image is amazing, especially with the small size. The pack a bigger optics punch than most large binos.

 

[Spiral Horn]

Great choice! I have both the 8x32 and 10x42 EL and I cannot tell the difference in low light performance between the two. I have compared them back to back long after the sun set. For deep sky astronomy, the 10x42's can resolve more detail and bring in more light but for hunting, I am unable to tell the difference.

This is really just verifying the laws of physics - an 8x32 and 10x42 configuration of the same binocular will have pretty much the same size exit pupil and with all else being equal about same level of low-light brightness. However, if comparing the 8x32 to an 8x42 EL there‘d be a noticeable difference. Also, you are correct via your astronomy observations that even though the 10x42 has about the same exit pupil it pulls in more image detail than the 8x32. Brand doesn’t matter, different configurations of the Zeiss SF would show the same result.

 

[Tall_Vol44]

for an all-around hunting binocular I’d recommend selling the B2 9x45 and buying the new Maven B6 10x50. I’ve owned both and to me the B6 is superior in virtually every way, smaller/lighter/sharper/brighter, with much better ergonomics/haptics. The B6 is a 50mm in the size/weight range of a 42mm and will absolutely outperform a smaller glass in low light.

How does this 10x50 B6 compare to a Swaro El or NL, or similar Zeiss/Leica in 10x, regarding just optical performance? I know objective sizes are different and I understand the pros and cons of that. Just curious how much the b6 gives up to top level euro glass at this point. I think my B2s are pretty good, then I look through my kowa 883 and wonder just how much better would higher tier glad be....

 

[Spiral Horn]

How does this 10x50 B6 compare to a Swaro El or NL, or similar Zeiss/Leica in 10x, regarding just optical performance? I know objective sizes are different and I understand the pros and cons of that. Just curious how much the b6 gives up to top level euro glass at this point

The views from each are all quite a bit different, and I can only offer my subjective impressions.

B6 - will start by repeating that I find the B6 the best binocular that Maven has produced to date. I find the view extremely bright, with very high resolution and richly detailed; colors are neutral without any obvious CA. It is not flat-field but has a very broad sweet-spot - so the 341ft FOV doesn’t feel at all restrictive. No blackouts, kidney beaning, or globe effect. The more I use this binocular the more it impresses me. The only nit-pick I’ve noticed is the colors are not quite as vivid or deeply saturated as the Big 3 - Leica is legendary in this regard.

EL - I’ve always loved the EL’s design and features but the view just doesn’t work for me. Set out to buy one several times but after direct comparison always ended up choosing something else. It is a very rich, high contrast view. But the extreme flat-field and lack of any edge distortion causes globe-effect while panning and somewhat the sensation of tunnel-vision. Many others think the view is fantastic. Back in 2017 I decided to once again visit the EL and set out to buy a 10x42 ELSV based on all the rave reviews - but after direct comparison with a number of other Alphas, came home with a Zeiss Victory SF 10x42 instead.

Zeiss SF - a very bright, easy and rich detailed/immersive view. No issues with eye position and every bit of very wide 360ft FOV is in full view with no globe effect. The overall tone is a bit on the cooler side, which I personally favor. It is also the best handling binocular in its class and with its rearward balance, feels much lighter than it actually is. When I bring them to my eyes everything seems to just naturally fit and my eyes don‘t at all struggle to soak in the complete view. Still my #1 glass.

NL - I have mixed feelings about the NL Pure. It really is an engineering masterpiece. When they first came out I considered selling my SF to buy one, but after direct comparison and spending some time with both I decided against it. At first glance the NL explodes with an expansive FOV, deep contrast, and explosive colors. But it has very finicky eye position, my eyes cannot absorb the entire FOV, I find the color a bit over-saturated, and there is too much glare for my liking. In some ways I find the view superior to the SF and in some I don’t; and also noticed more physical fatigue during extended glassing than with the SF. Interestingly, I find NL view at its best in cloudy conditions vs bright sunlight. $3k is a lot to put up to figure out if I’d settle in and adjust to it - but who knows, I may own one before all is said and done.

Do the views from these Alphas outperform the Maven - from a purely technical perspective of minimal distortion and pure transmission, probably yes. After all, we are comparing a ~$1k to $2-3K binos. But the B6 noticeably diminishes the performance gap and I find the image deeply satisfying. To put it in perspective I still slightly prefer the view from my SFs, but when using the B6 I don’t find myself feeling ”undergunned” or wishing I’d brought the SFs instead.

Let me finish by saying, all of the above are just my personal impressions based on a very serious, longstanding and somewhat incurable optics addiction. YMMV.

 

[Tall_Vol44]

@Spiral Horn Thanks for the comparisons and your opinions! I've searched a lot and haven't seen much comparing the B6 against anything else. I have been very happy with my B2s but I'm going to try to demo a pair of the B6s when they become available to do so now!

 

[mp12]

Ended up getting the Swaro 8x32. Will be my first "alpha" bins. So if anything will work in this size, it'll be these hopefully.

Did you get to compare the Swaro's to the Kowa 8x33's?

 

[Tall_Vol44]

Did you get to compare the Swaro's to the Kowa 8x33's?

I did compare them quite a bit. I prefer the ELs. Hard to explain but they just fit my face better and I didn't have to hold them just right to use them. But I'm 6'7" and have a large head/face.
I did most of my comparison from 20-30 feet out to like 1600ish yards in all different conditions.

The kowas had much more warm tone, and colors popped more.
Kowa center resolution was on par with the Els. I'm not good at judging a percentage here, but maybe 70%-80% area in the center was equal to the Els resolution. The ELs were clear to the very edge... MAYBE just a touch of drop off at the very extreme edge, but unnoticeable unless you were on a tripod and really really trying to see it.
The difference felt a little noticeable with hand held use, but not a deal breaker. On a tripod it was quite noticeable and I much preferred the Els.

The last big thing I noticed was that I felt like I could see better in poor lighting conditions with the ELs. I did take the kowas on 2-3 hunts on deer blinds last year and maybe 15-30 minutes before legal shooting was up, I had issues identifying bucks vs does- at around 175-250yds. I think it probably has to do with the warmer tone of the kowas, but that's just a guess.

Every with the less than stellar low light observations I had, I probably would've kept the kowas if they fit my face better and saved some money. Especially with a 8x30s size bino, as I will more than likely not use them on a tripod often.

Hope that helps

 

[mp12]

I did compare them quite a bit. I prefer the ELs. Hard to explain but they just fit my face better and I didn't have to hold them just right to use them. But I'm 6'7" and have a large head/face.
I did most of my comparison from 20-30 feet out to like 1600ish yards in all different conditions.

The kowas had much more warm tone, and colors popped more.
Kowa center resolution was on par with the Els. I'm not good at judging a percentage here, but maybe 70%-80% area in the center was equal to the Els resolution. The ELs were clear to the very edge... MAYBE just a touch of drop off at the very extreme edge, but unnoticeable unless you were on a tripod and really really trying to see it.
The difference felt a little noticeable with hand held use, but not a deal breaker. On a tripod it was quite noticeable and I much preferred the Els.

The last big thing I noticed was that I felt like I could see better in poor lighting conditions with the ELs. I did take the kowas on 2-3 hunts on deer blinds last year and maybe 15-30 minutes before legal shooting was up, I had issues identifying bucks vs does- at around 175-250yds. I think it probably has to do with the warmer tone of the kowas, but that's just a guess.

Every with the less than stellar low light observations I had, I probably would've kept the kowas if they fit my face better and saved some money. Especially with a 8x30s size bino, as I will more than likely not use them on a tripod often.

Hope that helps

Appreciate the response

 

[Boarmaster]

Im a eastern deer hunter. When I bought my ELs I knew due to the cost I would only wanted to buy one set of binos. I went with 8.5x42s. I never regretted that choice for my hunting which is everything from open timber, dark hardwood bottoms, pine forest, large food plots and clear cuts. I found those binos and size to work great for everything I have ran into in 17 years of owning them. If I upgrade to a newer model swaro I will buy the same size again.