7mm vs 300

[RosinBag]

Sounds like a good combo.....

 

[bearguide]

bigger kicks harder

 

[sanchomaes]

I shot my first elk when I was 14 with a 7 mag! The last elk that I shot with a rifle was with a .300 WSM. Both calibers offer such a variety of bullets that you can't go wrong with either one. Pick your poison.

-Dan

 

[robby denning]

pyroducks,

3500? out of a 7mm? Is that what you meant?

 

[RosinBag]

His first post was 3050, I think typo. I don't necessarily believe bigger kicks harder. Bigger calibers generally have more gross weight to the rifle which reduces felt recoil. The load your shooting can also determine how the recoil is. I could load a hot fast 7mm in a light rifle that will kick like a mule and a .300 WUM with a 210 grain bullet at average speed on a 9 pound rifle that is comfortable to shoot.

Rifles being equal in weight with factory ammo, bigger will kick harder...

 

[BuckSnort]

Stock design also plays a big role in felt recoil..I have shot 06's that seemed to thump me twice as hard as my 300WM... But like said above..All things being equal, bigger kicks harder..

 

[BH Hunter]

Bearguide: my 300 RUM is taking a serious extended stay in the re barreling hospital. You have anyone shooting those big brownies with a 7?

 

[pyroducksx3]

pyroducks,

3500? out of a 7mm? Is that what you meant?

yes meant 3000-3050 with the berger 180's using retumbo, sorry for the typo

 

[Bryan Martin]

7mm vs 30 cal is an interesting debate. I like both. The man behind the rifle is the most important, assuming both have a good rifle. There are lots of factors to consider: rifle weight, bullet selection (high BC or penetrating/premium bullet), estimated shot distance, recoil, muzzle brake, etc. I'd say that if a hunter wants a light wt rifle, with no muzzle brake and/or the shooter is sensitive to recoil, the 7mm is good. If recoil is a real issue, consider the 280 Ackley, 280 Rem or 7mm-08. The 7mm has a wide range of bullets. Many long range guys are using the 168 and 180 Bergers due to High BC. I've heard Cutting Edge are excellent too. Out to 500-600 yards, I've had great luck with the 140 and 150 TTSX from Barnes. I think this is a better all round bullet for "normal" hunting ranges (25-500 yards) than the high BC bullets, as they perform better on bone, shooting through brush/small trees, etc. I think for long range, broadside type shots, the lead core/copper jacket high BC bullets are probably the best. If I had to pick one bullet to hunt everything that walked in N.A. with one rifle and with "manageable" recoil, a 180 TTSX from a 300 Magnum would be tough to beat. I do like the 300s.

I personally hunt with a Custom 300 Borden Caribou, loaded with a 180 TTSX at 3225, what will kill anything that walks N.A. from 5-600 yards. It is not an ideal 700-1000 yd bullet, but I've never had to shoot more than 600 yds at a trophy animal. I don't believe most people can make 1000 yd, 1st shot hits in most mountain hunting situations because of varying wind speeds and angles, ballistic changes due to temp/elevation and angles corrections. So, for me, I think both calibers are excellent. The bullet and the scope can made each caliber a very different beast, more so than the caliber itself. For extreme shooting the 338s with 250 - 300 gr. projectiles are tough to beat, but I don't consider these "all around" rifles due to the recoil in a light rifle or the heavy weight of a recoil manageable rifle. Keep in mind that I'm not a fan of muzzle brakes for hunting. On the range, they are great, but how often does a hunter or guide put in earplugs before shooting? Not often enough and I already have too much hearing loss from client's muzzle brakes.

 

[In God We Trust]

I shoot a 300 win mag but I would be happy with a 7mm as well. Both are great calibers. I don't think you can wrong with either.

 

[T43]

I say both. My 7mm is heavier but easier to shoot it all depends on my mood for the day and how far I am going with it on my back but that is entirely gun related and not caliber specific.

 

[robby denning]

From Bryan's post:

Keep in mind that I'm not a fan of muzzle brakes for hunting

with you all the way and brakes are where I draw the line on "enough gun". Too many bad experieces in hunting situations.

Have a friend who lost a good buck because he leaned against a big tree, fired. Took a minute to get his senses back after the blast to his head from the brake against the tree- like trying to recover from a Mike Tyson blow to the side of the head. He hit the buck, but poorly and couldn't make a follow up shot as he was dazed.

Another friend leaned against a haystack and shot. Same result- OUCH!

Also, as an outfitter with clients, I try and hide when a client pulls down on an animal and he's shooting a muzzle break.

They serve a great function, but scare me in the field.

 

[wapitibob]

7STW
Just got some Barnes LRX's to load up. So far the Berger 180's group the best but I doubt I'll hunt with them.

 

[robby denning]

Wapitibob,

What kind of group and why no hunt with them?

 

[wapitibob]

Finally got to 5/8" after a month of messing around. Evidently my factory sporter barrel needs fore arm support. Went from vegas 9 ring size to less than a quarter with 3 business cards between stock and barrel. Best load so far is the 180 VLD's and 78gr Retumbo, just dusting the lands.

To me, Bergers are a soft tissue bullet (behind the shoulder), essentially a ballistic Tip with thinner jacket and better BC. The guys that have good success are using a heavy for caliber bullet, over 200 gr for Elk. The new 195 hybrids will provide that for the 7mm's.
The Barnes are a high shoulder bullet needing some bone to get them expanding. The redesigned pocket of the TTSX helped and now the new LRX will give the TTSX a much better BC. I'm thinking the LRX is the way to go if a guy doesn't want to shoot an Accubond, which to me is a combination of the thin skinned ballistic tip and the partition.

 

[robby denning]

understand and I've wondered about the Berger's myself for exactly what you said. A friend gave me some 168's for my 7 Mag, one group shot 5/8" but I haven't bought a box for why you say.

I can't always shoot big bucks behind the shoulder. Big deer are TOO HARD TO FIND (takes years many times) and I often have to take any shot they present. I know, not ethical blah blah, and am worried about sending a Berger into a non-ideal shot situation.

Thanks WB

Anyone else put a Berger into a shoulder bone or tail base and have good performance?

 

[TwoTikkas]

I'm with you Robby. I'm in no hurry to pay Berger prices for a bullet that I have reservations about regarding shot angle. I'm no fan of fragmentation bullets for big game anyway. The same is true of Barnes,for me anyway. High shoulder,no shoulder,impact velocity. Not interested. I'd like to see a number for the head count of deer and elk killed with the Core Lokt. Seems we all want a designer bullet these days,lol. With the likes of the Partition,Bear Claw, A-Frame,AccuBond,Innerbond and Grand Slam,why take chances? I say what ever makes your hunting experiance the most rewarding is what's important. The choices are endless.

 

[pyroducksx3]

So I got my rifle back and I am loving it. I did some load development and got up to 71 gr of retumbo using 180 bergers with neck turned norma brass. I didnt hit overpressure signs yet but have to be getting close. I got 2912 fps with an es of 14. I called the gun smith and he said the chrono might not be accurate and the only way to really tell your velocity is to shoot it and figure it out. He has ohler 35 that is always 3% off so I might be right in there just have to shoot it and verify the data, the chrono is most usefull to determine ES I believe.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Finally got to 5/8" after a month of messing around. Evidently my factory sporter barrel needs fore arm support. Went from vegas 9 ring size to less than a quarter with 3 business cards between stock and barrel. Best load so far is the 180 VLD's and 78gr Retumbo, just dusting the lands.

To me, Bergers are a soft tissue bullet (behind the shoulder), essentially a ballistic Tip with thinner jacket and better BC. The guys that have good success are using a heavy for caliber bullet, over 200 gr for Elk. The new 195 hybrids will provide that for the 7mm's.
The Barnes are a high shoulder bullet needing some bone to get them expanding. The redesigned pocket of the TTSX helped and now the new LRX will give the TTSX a much better BC. I'm thinking the LRX is the way to go if a guy doesn't want to shoot an Accubond, which to me is a combination of the thin skinned ballistic tip and the partition.

Wapitibob,

I am curious to how you have come to your opinions about these bullets? Are they from necropsy examinations or actual field performance that you have seen? I ask because I have made some assumptions about bullet performance myself, including thinking that Bergers are too frangible. However, I have since actually used Bergers on game (elk, deer, and antelope), and not really heavy for caliber (185 in .308) with good success. I have also killed many (maybe 15ish?) animals with various Barnes bullets (Mostly the original TSX, bust also orginal X and TTSX), and have had nothing but consistent performance, and not always on bone. In fact, in my experience, I am now completely confident in Barnes performance on a hard or soft hit. Many hunters also report good consistent terminal performance with Berger Hunting VLD's including John Barsness in his rather in-depth examination of Berger terminal performance found here:

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Barsness%20Article.pdf

My point is that I am glad I have given those bullets some field time, and other Rokslide members may also want to try them.

I am NOT knocking the Accubond, as it is also one of my favorites, and I currently load the 160 7mm in my 7 mag. If the Bergers shoot well in your rifle, you may want to give them a try. You might be surprised just how effective they are.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I also disagree with Wapitibob! I have seen what Berger's can do up close and way out there. Most of the bad publicity is from people who have never even shot the bullet, let alone into the shoulder up close. Here is a link to a Berger thread from a couple of months ago.

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/show...front-shoulder-and-still-get-good-performance