7mm Rem Mag vs the new age

[sdupontjr]

I want to hear from you guys to help me understand something. Last year, I started playing around with my older 7mag. Watched tons of videos and such about dealing with the belt, head spacing off the shoulder rather than the belt, bumping shoulder back, etc. Developed some very accurate loads with 163 eld's given my 9.5 twist rate.

The latest videos that I have saw and read claim that the 7 PRC is superior to the 7mag. Sure folks hate the belt, the cartridge is outdated, not the new kid on the block. I totally understand the 7 PRC is a modern design cartridge allowing the bullet to be seated out to or at the neck / shoulder junction to maximize the cartridge to its full potential while in factory form. Coupled with a properly twisted barrel, you have something that someone could just go buy off the shelf both gun and ammo and go shoot. But this is the reloading section. Everything that I know about the 7mag in factory ammo for the last 30+ years of shooting it is the factory ammo is Neutered. The 7mag isn't loaded to maximize its potential.

The pic is of course the Rem mag on left and PRC on the right. Every pic that I have seen of the PRC is just about in this form. This particular round is 175 eldx. The article claims that in factory from, the 7PRC with a 175 eldx will outrun the 7mag with 175 eldx by about 100 fps. My question is what about maximizing the 7mag? Seat its bullet out to the neck / shoulder junction, so that it doesn't impede into the powder column. Throat the barrel to accommodate the length of the cartridge if needed. Modify mag length if needed. (in my case, my rifle will hold and cycle up to 3.715" with no issues)

So, from a reloading standpoint 7mag optimized to its full potential vs 7 PRC to its full potential, what are the numbers now? All I have on this is information that Les Bowman was doing this in the 60 and 70's to maximize the 7mag. But what do you guys think and has anyone done this to a 7mag? Is it strictly marketing by Hornady?

 

[Leibhart1]

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[gerry35]

The 7 PRC has less case capacity so at the same pressures the 7 mm RM outperforms it. This guy does a good job talking about some of the things mentioned in your post and has started this series to compare four 7mm popular rounds. If you don't want to wade through the whole video at around 13:00 he goes into what you are asking.

 

[sdupontjr]

Gerry35, I have seen that video and waiting for the test results to see. But yes, this is one of the videos that I watched that confirms a lot of my reading and ifon that I have found. But again, in theory, it seems correct, but he hasn't posted the testing video as far as I know.

 

[gerry35]

The next video in the series goes into it some more. I'm at work but can post it later. I've seen some other stuff too I can post up.

 

[sdupontjr]

Ill search for it, thanks.

 

[tabascoman79]

People have always complained about the belt on the 7/300mag rounds. Like is some flaw in the matrix. 7rem mag is a great round. You can play with powders and bullets. And push it harder. Get some good brass. I got rid of my 7mag about 5 years ago when the 162gr amax bullets started drying up. Mine was a 1-9.25 twist. My rifle had a 25” barrel.
The prc is just marketing hype. If you want a new 7mm. I’d go with the SAUM. But, you can work the old rem mag up to do great things. I’d never pic a prc over the rem mag, or win mag for that case. The 300prc has 3-4 more grains of case volume.
To me. Look at the cost of reloading components. Brass and dies. If it was me wanting a bit more speed out of the 7 rem mag, I’d look at n560-n570 for a powder. And run a 180gr bullet for generally hunting and target use. I always used a 140gr Berger hunting bullet for antelope to elk hunting. With the 162amax being my target bullet.

 

[TaperPin]

I want to hear from you guys to help me understand something. Last year, I started playing around with my older 7mag. Watched tons of videos and such about dealing with the belt, head spacing off the shoulder rather than the belt, bumping shoulder back, etc. Developed some very accurate loads with 163 eld's given my 9.5 twist rate.

The latest videos that I have saw and read claim that the 7 PRC is superior to the 7mag. Sure folks hate the belt, the cartridge is outdated, not the new kid on the block. I totally understand the 7 PRC is a modern design cartridge allowing the bullet to be seated out to or at the neck / shoulder junction to maximize the cartridge to its full potential while in factory form. Coupled with a properly twisted barrel, you have something that someone could just go buy off the shelf both gun and ammo and go shoot. But this is the reloading section. Everything that I know about the 7mag in factory ammo for the last 30+ years of shooting it is the factory ammo is Neutered. The 7mag isn't loaded to maximize its potential.
View attachment 689565
The pic is of course the Rem mag on left and PRC on the right. Every pic that I have seen of the PRC is just about in this form. This particular round is 175 eldx. The article claims that in factory from, the 7PRC with a 175 eldx will outrun the 7mag with 175 eldx by about 100 fps. My question is what about maximizing the 7mag? Seat its bullet out to the neck / shoulder junction, so that it doesn't impede into the powder column. Throat the barrel to accommodate the length of the cartridge if needed. Modify mag length if needed. (in my case, my rifle will hold and cycle up to 3.715" with no issues)

So, from a reloading standpoint 7mag optimized to its full potential vs 7 PRC to its full potential, what are the numbers now? All I have on this is information that Les Bowman was doing this in the 60 and 70's to maximize the 7mag. But what do you guys think and has anyone done this to a 7mag? Is it strictly marketing by Hornady?

It is marketing, but also product support - it takes a big commitment to advertise, send free reamers or guns to early testers, stock shelves with ammo, brass and dies. The 7 PRC is the easy button, especially for guys that don’t handload. If Hornady pulls support for it and brass and ammo gets hard to obtain it will fall flat like so many other new “improved modern” cartridges.

A custom 7 Rem mag barrel and chamber with throat to seat bullets out long will shoot just as well as any 7PRC, and the slightly larger case should give it a velocity advantage, but there are easier options if you want a hot rod 7mm to beat the PRC, like the 28 Nosler.

Prior to the PRC, 28 Nosler, and 7 ultra mag, the 7-300 Wby and 7 STW have been around for more than 40 years and spank the 7 Rem mag pretty good. Most guys I’ve known that wanted a faster gun just had a STW reamer run into the 7 mag chamber or they bought a 28 Nosler.

 

[Ramem7mm]

I am a 7mm RM fan and love it. I had a brand new custom rifle made last year to shoot the longer higher BC bullets as well. The 7 PRC is a great cartridge that can be the easy button for some and its also made for marketing and innovation to sell more products which is all good too.

 

[B23]

I think the 7 Rem mag/7 PRC comparison, debate, cage death match or however you choose to discuss it is basically the exact same discussion and outcome as the 6.5 Creedmoor vs 260 Rem.

In off the shelf factory rifles shooting factory ammo the 7 PRC has the advantage, but, with equal twist and length barrels custom chambered to optimize freebore length for the bullet/s being used shooting hand loaded ammo to equal pressure they are essentially twins.

In my opinion, instead of people bashing on Hornady claiming all they're really doing is great marketing we should be applauding them for actually listening to what shooters want and creating cartridges, ammo, and components that fill those gaps. I don't recall ever reading anything where Hornady said one of their new cartridges was better than another or they're the end all be all. No, those claims don't come from Hornady, instead, they come from consumers that are butthurt about people bragging up something new and they just have to hate on it.

Also, I think it's important to keep in mind the majority of people out there in the shooting sports world are shooting off the shelf factory rifles with off the shelf factory ammo not custom chambered rifles with optimized hand loads and this is where Hornady has been very smart because they're bridging that gap by creating new cartridges with chamber specs more conducive to shooting heavier higher BC bullets then supporting those cartridges with ammo to match.

 

[gerry35]

Except Hornady at times outright lies sometimes and it's alright to call them out on it. In this case they say 3000 fps with their 175 gr factory load but only get 2850 fps on average. At the same time they underload the 7 mm RM.

 

[Runolfson]

So, I had this old Nova that I took out the inline 6 and dropped in a V8 383 stroker. Is it still a Nova? Kinda...
If you use a custom reamer and load ammo that wouldn't shoot in a SAMMI chamber do you still have a 7mm REM Mag? Kinda...What if I reamed my 7prc to fit a 300 prc case and just necked down to fit 7mm bullet, do I still have a 7Prc? Not really...

None of this really matters. If you have a 7 rem mag shoot it. It's great. If you want to get a new rifle why not hit the easy button and go with 7prc. It's great too. Why does one have to be better than the other? Better for who?

 

[35WhelenAI]

The belt on any magnum can be worked around easily by taking once fired brass and sizing it only as much as needed to chamber properly in your gun. Then it is essentially headspacing on the shoulder like non magnum bottleneck cartridges.

It's really interesting (laughable?) the excitement and twitterpation shooters exhibit when they have to be shooting the latest iteration of something that came before, because somehow shooting (not hunting) game at barrel-busting ranges is the only way to do it. Folks have bought in hook, line and sinker that planning on shooting game at 600+ yards is a necessity. It ain't.

Ammo companies are not stupid, but what does that make shooters thinking they have to buy it or their hunting season will be a bust?

 

[sdupontjr]

So, I had this old Nova that I took out the inline 6 and dropped in a V8 383 stroker. Is it still a Nova? Kinda...
If you use a custom reamer and load ammo that wouldn't shoot in a SAMMI chamber do you still have a 7mm REM Mag? Kinda...What if I reamed my 7prc to fit a 300 prc case and just necked down to fit 7mm bullet, do I still have a 7Prc? Not really...

None of this really matters. If you have a 7 rem mag shoot it. It's great. If you want to get a new rifle why not hit the easy button and go with 7prc. It's great too. Why does one have to be better than the other? Better for who?

While I understand what your trying to say, I don't agree with the example. Your changing entire components. In your example your changing cartridge size to 300PRC. All I'm saying is seat the bullet out further out its original 7mag belted case. You may or may not need to throat it longer depending on the bullet selected. You may not need to throat it.

If I have to 308's using varget. Varget is a powder that damn near fills up the case. Your running standard specs and I seat mine out much further to get another grain or 2 or even run compressed load. Sure, I'm on the hot end but I'll out run you all day. Only thing changed is powder capacity. No reaming, no changing case dimensions, just powder capacity as in the 7mag's powder capacity.

 

[max-x]

The straight 284 isn't a slouch either...

I've been running a straight 284 to normally published 7RM speeds in long barrels and it's great.

From that experience, I don't see any huge benefit in the mag case head designs until putting a 7mm onto a super mag (15mm) case head and getting 19x's into the 3200fps speed range.

 

[Pharmseller]

As if any animal you shoot inside of 600 yards would know the difference.




P

 

[xsn10s]

I bought a new Remarms 700 ADL over a 7mm PRC last year because good brass was more available. It has a factory 1-8" twist so it shoots the heavier, high bc bullets that I want to use. I'm still breaking in the barrel and will be for a long time. But so far my very mild fire forming loads for the brass goes 2800 fps with the 180 ELDM. I used the last of my RL22 to save the three pounds of Staball HD. I stuffed the barreled action into a used KRG Bravo. IMO the differences in the 7mm PRC and 7mm RM are largely negated when the rifle comes with a 1-8" twist. The steel is at 550 yards.

 

[deer_hunter132]

can confirm, bumping the shoulder .002 works just dandy.

 

[Ringbill27]

Pretty interesting. This video Jim compares 6.8 western to 7PRC and also point out how hornady has been flasely advertising speed of the PRC cartridges. Finding the 6.5 and 7 can be up to 200fps then stated on box.

#savethe68western

 

[gerry35]

Pretty interesting.

Watched that last night. Glad Hornady is finally being called out for their lies. I think Jim does a good job explaining why they aren't telling the truth about the 6.5 and 7 PRC cartridges and the speed people are actually getting.