7mm-08 for elk?

[Jeaves1]

It will kill then. It’s a good caliber for smaller shooters.

 

[ssimo]

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I appreciate the work done in the linked threads … whether it is scientific or anecdotal.

But you certainly see the hypocrisy of the above quoted statement right? Demanding scientific proof for the position you oppose, but dismissing the need to scientifically prove the position you support.

1) hypocrisy is not the proper term in this case, maybe you intended "contradiction"..
2)even in this case you would be wrong because i never "demanded" anything. I just replied to someone who used the verb "prove", saying what years of work innthe research enviroment teached me: something can be proven only with a systematic approach and this is very difficult regarding terminal ballistic.
3)i don't "support" anything. The fact that the heavier and the faster a projectile is, the more wounding potential it has is just that, a FACT. If someone makes poor bullet choice or is not as proficient with a heavier caliber, it's another story.
4) there is absolutely no need to be aggressive

 

[ssimo]

I remember in one of the threads that discussed all of these comparisons of cartridges and caliber, there was a great study that discussed the topic in depth.

It discussed all the topics and after reading it, I had to conclude there is a totality of circumstances and conditions that either make projectiles more lethal or less. I guess my point is, there are a lot of different variables. And to say definitively one caliber/cartridge is not suitable, would be difficult to prove.

I have my own opinion of what to use for elk. But that is based on my method of hunting and the distances I am comfortable shooting and will most likely be shooting, along with the animals I have seen killed and wounded. But to be fair, none of the people I hunt with shoot cartridges that are very dissimilar to what shoot.

I've always enjoyed listening/reading other people's opinions about what cartridge they shoot and why. Agree or disagree, as long as they are successful, they can shoot whatever they want.

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Common sense my friend. Something very rare on gun forums ahah

 

[ssimo]

Good points. I never understand when a particular cartridge is ruled out, but a larger cartridge in the same caliber is the cats meow. Have a friend that thinks his 7 rem mag is a 1000 yard elk gun, but also is convinced the 7-08 is inadequate at any distance. Similar thought process is pretty common. I’m thinking about getting rid of my 280ai. Since I moved to AK, I don’t have a place anywhere nearby to practice frequently beyond 300 yards, and there isn’t much need for real long shooting anyway. My 7-08ai still has plenty of velocity to 450 (and another hundred until minimum velocity required for bullet function, I just like some cushion ). The 280 adds another couple hundred to that, but I don’t really need it.


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In hunting, as long as you don't choose very unusual, low powered calibers, there isn't much to rule out in my opinion inside 300 yards. Past that minimum expansion velocity comes into play. A perfect boiler room shot will still be lethal? Most likely it will be, as long as the projectile achieves sufficient penetration. Will it cause more suffering to the animal and will it make the recovery more challenging? Most likely it will do.
So i agree with you, most of the caliber debates could be ended juat using common sense.

 

[ssimo]

You have to understand what you're dealing with. The crowd here is made up largely of people with an unwarranted amount of self esteem. No other point of view could possibly compete with whatever idea pops into their head and everything that was ever done before them was automatically wrong. I have to imagine it was like dealing with the boomers decades ago, since they are the same side of the same coin.

It's funny that many agree with those people and this happens on every single gun forum XD
It's funny. There are also many other forum phenomeons i frequently observed. Confirmation bias, groups of users making coalitions against other users or even against certain ideas, unmotivated passive-aggressive or aggressive behaviour towards someone you don't know and you will probably never know, people totally losing the points of the discussion focusing on attacking you personally, and so on. I am a psychiatrist and it's interesting to see that, in forums, many phenomenons i studied and observed in our society, are enhanced.
On the other hand, there are cery knowledgeable people on this forum and i find the suggestion i got here very valuable..
Pros and cons, as in everything. As in calibers XD

 

[Matt Cashell]

1) hypocrisy is not the proper term in this case, maybe you intended "contradiction"..
2)even in this case you would be wrong because i never "demanded" anything. I just replied to someone who used the verb "prove", saying what years of work innthe research enviroment teached me: something can be proven only with a systematic approach and this is very difficult regarding terminal ballistic.
3)i don't "support" anything. The fact that the heavier and the faster a projectile is, the more wounding potential it has is just that, a FACT. If someone makes poor bullet choice or is not as proficient with a heavier caliber, it's another story.
4) there is absolutely no need to be aggressive

Ok.

1) Contradiction is an acceptable description if you prefer, but I find hypocrisy to be more accurate.
2) The demand is implied, of course.
3) That is not a scientific fact. That is opinion supported by precisely nothing. If it is a fact backed by science, which you have already established as a requirement of "proof" show us the repeatable, peer-reviewed studies that support it. It sounds like you have the research background to do so.
4) What? Please point me to something I wrote that is aggressive. I only encourage respectful debate here, and do my best to adhere to that standard myself.

Furthermore, I think you miss the point of the referenced threads as a whole. The argument is not that smaller calibers cause "more wounding" than larger/faster cartridges. The argument is:

a) Smaller calibers (with proper bullet selection) are more effective for many/most hunters than larger calibers due to the combined effect of sufficient terminal wound channels and their ease of shooting.

b) Most shooters, even big burly manly types, can shoot lower recoil cartridges more accurately, which leads to better hits on game animals.

c) A better placed hit with a smaller caliber is better than a marginal hit with a larger/faster caliber.

At least that is what is presented by the posters in those threads. It is opinion, backed up by an increasingly large sample of anecdotal evidence. That anecdotal evidence is significantly more prevalent than any evidence, anecdotal or scientific, that you have provided to back up your assertion that larger calibers provide a greater "margin of error on shot placement."

 

[ssimo]

Ok.

1) Contradiction is an acceptable description if you prefer, but I find hypocrisy to be more accurate.
2) The demand is implied, of course.
3) That is not a scientific fact. That is opinion supported by precisely nothing. If it is a fact backed by science, which you have already established as a requirement of "proof" show us the repeatable, peer-reviewed studies that support it. It sounds like you have the research background to do so.
4) What? Please point me to something I wrote that is aggressive. I only encourage respectful debate here, and do my best to adhere to that standard myself.

Furthermore, I think you miss the point of the referenced threads as a whole. The argument is not that smaller calibers cause "more wounding" than larger/faster cartridges. The argument is:

a) Smaller calibers (with proper bullet selection) are more effective for many/most hunters than larger calibers due to the combined effect of sufficient terminal wound channels and their ease of shooting.

b) Most shooters, even big burly manly types, can shoot lower recoil cartridges more accurately, which leads to better hits on game animals.

c) A better placed hit with a smaller caliber is better than a marginal hit with a larger/faster caliber.

At least that is what is presented by the posters in those threads. It is opinion, backed up by an increasingly large sample of anecdotal evidence. That anecdotal evidence is significantly more prevalent than any evidence, anecdotal or scientific, that you have provided to back up your assertion that larger calibers provide a greater "margin of error on shot placement."

1) definizione of hypocrisy: "Hypocrisy is the practice of feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not".
2) not worth a reply
3) i said many times that i am not asking for or assessing to have any scientific validity in what i think about this other than what the laws of physic say about energy.
4) man, accusing me of hypocrisy like that.. but likely it was because you missed the meaning of that, word, you can find it at point 1!

I literally wrote many times on this exact thread what you wrote on point a, b amd c.

When i read the beginning of the final part of ypur post, i stopped reading, sorry. At that point i understood that you are not willing or able to follow my very simple logic reasoning and, since i don't wanna convince anyone, i suggest we go ahead with our lives without losing anymore time. Now i continue making steaks out of the 230 lbs fallow deer i killed with a overpowered and oversized (for someone else underpowered and weak) .308 yesterday evening XD.

 

[bradmacmt]

It will kill then. It’s a good caliber for smaller shooters.

There's someone like this on everyone of these sorts of threads... the 7-08 works for wimmin and chillins, but not for men lol.

 

[Matt Cashell]

i don't wanna convince anyone, i suggest we go ahead with our lives without losing anymore time.

Sure.

Enjoy your fallow deer. I hear it’s delicious.

 

[Marble]

Good points. I never understand when a particular cartridge is ruled out, but a larger cartridge in the same caliber is the cats meow. Have a friend that thinks his 7 rem mag is a 1000 yard elk gun, but also is convinced the 7-08 is inadequate at any distance. Similar thought process is pretty common. I’m thinking about getting rid of my 280ai. Since I moved to AK, I don’t have a place anywhere nearby to practice frequently beyond 300 yards, and there isn’t much need for real long shooting anyway. My 7-08ai still has plenty of velocity to 450 (and another hundred until minimum velocity required for bullet function, I just like some cushion ). The 280 adds another couple hundred to that, but I don’t really need it.


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I hear you on that! My take, I have both those cartridges and really like them both. I do not sell my guns. Especially my hunting rifles. I either need them or have them because I have friends with crappy rifles and/or do not properly test them prior to season.

7-08AI < 280AI < 7mm Mag for velocity/energy.

I think if you handloaded the 280AI it would be right up there with the 7 Mag.

My 280 is in the Kimber Mt. Rifle. Lovethat gun.

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[wyosam]

I hear you on that! My take, I have both those cartridges and really like them both. I do not sell my guns. Especially my hunting rifles. I either need them or have them because I have friends with crappy rifles and/or do not properly test them prior to season.

7-08AI < 280AI < 7mm Mag for velocity/energy.

I think if you handloaded the 280AI it would be right up there with the 7 Mag.

My 280 is in the Kimber Mt. Rifle. Lovethat gun.

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That 280 shoots either the 155 absolute hammer at 3170 or the 130AH at 3340. Pretty great out of a 22” tube. Wouldn’t be a rifle sale, would just be barrel/dies/brass (I have two identical Tikkas that have a few different barrels that rotate) Probably worth keeping it around and always having the option to put it back into use. I like having backups/loaners too.


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[ssimo]

Sure.

Enjoy your fallow deer. I hear it’s delicious.

It is, it seems like the romans took them from Anatolia to the italian peninsula exactly for this reason!
If you come here soon or late qe can hunt one togheter

 

[Usi05]

Wouldn’t hesitate. Shot a bull moose with my 7mm-08 this year with 150 grain.

First shot in vitals and he was hurting. I followed up immediately with 2 more shots and he tipped over.

Proper placement and shooting discipline and I think you would be fine for elk.


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[Walmart Greeter]

7mm08 is not powerful enough, I would go with a 6.5 Creedmoor or an AR15

 

[sdx]

Same bullet as 7mm rem mag. I'd just subtract about 200 yards or so from my max range with the 7 mag.

 

[ssimo]

Same bullet as 7mm rem mag. I'd just subtract about 200 yards or so from my max range with the 7 mag.

Exactly, it's just physics

Or better.. consider the terminal performance of the 7-08 like the one of a 7 rem mag at a couple hundred yards more than your shooting distance. If you would be confident to shoot an elk at 700 yards with a 7 rem mag, there is no much difference with a 7-08 at 500 yards. I didn't check exactly ballistic tables but more or less it's like this..

 

[Old Dog]

The 7-08 has very similar ballistics to 7x57. Not sure there's anything on the planet that hasn't been killed with 7x57.

 

[sneaky]

So like a 162 gr ELD-X will work? I'm curious if the mag length in the new Gen 2 Ruger American will be long enough for longer bullets.

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AICS mags in the Gen 2s. Plenty of mag length

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[sneaky]

I dm'd the gentleman , when/if he responds i'll elaborate .
you asked valid questions so this is is how we learn,
I've always wondered why the 7-08 wasn't as popular as the 6.5 creedmoor

Because it wasn't marketed as heavily as the 6.5CM.

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[sneaky]

In hunting, as long as you don't choose very unusual, low powered calibers, there isn't much to rule out in my opinion inside 300 yards. Past that minimum expansion velocity comes into play. A perfect boiler room shot will still be lethal? Most likely it will be, as long as the projectile achieves sufficient penetration. Will it cause more suffering to the animal and will it make the recovery more challenging? Most likely it will do.
So i agree with you, most of the caliber debates could be ended juat using common sense.

You hunt with a .308 and are arguing against a 7-08... which is a necked down .308 with better ballistics and sectional densities. I'm interested in the mental gymnastics you've practiced to reach that conclusion.

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