7 mag - Elk

[wirehead]

Folks,

This debate is old, tired… but still interesting... maybe (at least, to me).

Here I stand with choices: double down on a really solid Win M70 7 mag (9.5” twist - 24” barrel) or build a 300 win mag, maybe 338 WM. I want (we need!) more than substantial killing ethics up to elk size big game to 500 yds. For a 7 mag that’s something like asking if 2175 fps and 1830 ft-lbs for a 175 gr bullet at 500 yds is very ethical (that’s 2850 fps muzzle for a 175 ABLR). I reload so this type of long / heavy elk load is less a problem. I’m all for more guns but would rather take that 300 WM $ and upgrade optics, spotting scope, HUNT, etc.

I’ve read a ton of other posts/topics on this - still not settled.

Thoughts?

 

[wnelson14]

Is this a question?

 

[wirehead]

More info - that combo I described above, per Berger’s stability calculator, is not necessarily completely stable…

 

[Formidilosus]

More info - that combo I described above, per Berger’s stability calculator, is not necessarily completely stable…

It’s 500 yards. Literally any common center fire with decent bullets will kill elk without issue at 500 yards.

You are pole vaulting over mouse turds.

 

[wirehead]

It’s 500 yards. Literally any common center fire with decent bullets will kill elk without issue at 500 yards.

You are pole vaulting over mouse turds.

Bold.

 

[Fishermen0105]

The ones I have killed have been with 270 and 284 winchesters. I dont think a 338 win mag is necessary for elk. The 284 kill was last year and the elk went maybe 10 feet.

 

[wirehead]

The ones I have killed have been with 270 and 284 winchesters. I dont think a 338 win mag is necessary for elk. The 284 kill was last year and the elk went maybe 10 feet.

Thanks Fisher! That helps… thinking/looking more like I’m going to hot rod my M70. What bullet were you running in the 284?

 

[TheHammer]

It’s subjective to the situation. A lot of elk have been taken with a 338win. I took an elk with a 308 and 168ttsx at over 450yds and it practically tipped over, while I watched my buddy shoot his smaller bull with a 7mag 162eldx 4 times at distances from 290-330yds and it acted like it wasn’t hit. All 4 bullets were in the lungs and all 4 were recovered. The thing is, shoot what you can comfortably shoot with confidence! If you’d be more confident with a 300wm or 338, great! But tons of guys use 284 calibers with great results. I’d recommend a 168Lrx out of that 7 and there isn’t a thing on this planet with 4 legs standing up to that.

 

[Newtosavage]

To me, the question of cartridge comes down to distance and accuracy. What I mean by that is this:

Before you can worry about the effectiveness of a cartridge at 400,500 or 600 yards, you first have to put it in a rifle that is capable of delivering enough accuracy at those distances to be ethical. A 2" gun can have all the energy in the world but at 500 yards, it's not a very ethical choice. At least, not in my eyes.

I don't trust myself to shoot at game, even elk-sized game, beyond 400 yards. Mainly because I don't have a place to practice at those distances. But also because a lot can happen in 400+ yards that is out of my control. So looking to achieve certain amounts of energy and velocity at 500+ is really an academic exercise to me.

A 7mm-08 is just a 7 Mag minus 150 yards. Anyone willing to shoot a critter at 500 yards with a 7 Mag should never worry about someone doing the same with a 7mm-08 at 350 yards. It's the same thing.

 

[wirehead]

It’s subjective to the situation. A lot of elk have been taken with a 338win. I took an elk with a 308 and 168ttsx at over 450yds and it practically tipped over, while I watched my buddy shoot his smaller bull with a 7mag 162eldx 4 times at distances from 290-330yds and it acted like it wasn’t hit. All 4 bullets were in the lungs and all 4 were recovered. The thing is, shoot what you can comfortably shoot with confidence! If you’d be more confident with a 300wm or 338, great! But tons of guys use 284 calibers with great results. I’d recommend a 168Lrx out of that 7 and there isn’t a thing on this planet with 4 legs standing up to that.

Love that bullet. I shoot 140 TTSXs right now. The problem I run into is barrel twist. My M70 is at 1-9.5” and Barnes recommends a 1-8” twist for bullet stabilization. That’s a fair margin…

 

[Fishermen0105]

Thanks Fisher! That helps… thinking/looking more like I’m going to hot rod my M70. What bullet were you running in the 284?

I was using a Barnes 140 ttsx.

 

[GunsAreFun]

1830 ft-lbs is similar to many 6.5 Creedmoors at 100 and 308s at 200.

 

[Newtosavage]

1830 ft-lbs is similar to many 6.5 Creedmoors at 100 and 308s at 200.

Exactly. People obsess over cartridges and forget about distance.

 

[Unckebob]

Thanks Fisher! That helps… thinking/looking more like I’m going to hot rod my M70. What bullet were you running in the 284?

Lets know what you do to the M70.

 

[wirehead]

1830 ft-lbs is similar to many 6.5 Creedmoors at 100 and 308s at 200.

Lets know what you do to the M70.

My *want* is to have the action trued + proof carbon with reasonable (probably composite) stock and bottom metal and an upgrade of my vx3 to vx5. We’ll see if the budget agrees. Rifle is a 1/2” rifle as is - would rebarrel to shorten, add muzzle brake, and increase twist rate. But hard to rebarrel a shooter. Could also rebarrel to 300 WM… the choices are debilitating.

 

[Unckebob]

My *want* is to have the action trued + proof carbon with reasonable (probably composite) stock and bottom metal and an upgrade of my vx3 to vx5. We’ll see if the budget agrees. Rifle is a 1/2” rifle as is - would rebarrel to shorten, add muzzle brake, and increase twist rate. But hard to rebarrel a shooter. Could also rebarrel to 300 WM… the choices are debilitating.

I think the hardest part of your project will be getting a stock a reasonable price.

I recently bought a older (more like rubber than plastic) OEM synthetic stock for my Featherweight (I don't want to damage my pretty wood stock). It is much stiffer than the plastic stocks we see.

 

[Rob5589]

Sell the rifle and buy or build one that fits your need/want.

 

[HandgunHTR]

Love that bullet. I shoot 140 TTSXs right now. The problem I run into is barrel twist. My M70 is at 1-9.5” and Barnes recommends a 1-8” twist for bullet stabilization. That’s a fair margin…

My 7Mag is a 1-9.5 twist and it shoots 175s just fine.

 

[kpk]

For me, I can shoot my 7mm RM accurately off the bench for as long as I want. I don't "think" that I'd be as willing to do that if I had gone with a 300 win mag. Sure, you don't feel it when shooting at game, but I wouldn't practice as much and therefore wouldn't have the same confidence level. I think. (I don't use muzzle devices either)

 

[Montana Slim]

It’s 500 yards. Literally any common center fire with decent bullets will kill elk without issue at 500 yards.

You are pole vaulting over mouse turds.

This...

My *want* is to have the action trued + proof carbon with reasonable (probably composite) stock and bottom metal and an upgrade of my vx3 to vx5. We’ll see if the budget agrees. Rifle is a 1/2” rifle as is - would rebarrel to shorten, add muzzle brake, and increase twist rate. But hard to rebarrel a shooter. Could also rebarrel to 300 WM… the choices are debilitating.

Plus...
If you have a legitimate 1/2" M70 - why the hell go changing that?!? Crazy talk