6x45

[BLJ]

We have permits for 3 farms this year so far. I will try to take pictures and record data.

You need any help??

 

[83cj-7]

Regarding exits, I’d say it’s 50/50. A lot of times I’m purposely shooting high shoulder and if anything comes out it’s fragments. If I get a broadside double lung, it will certainly exit and have a decent blood trail. 90+% of the time I don’t need a blood trail. Deer are usually within 10 to 25 yards of where they are hit or DRT. If a deer does run, I can usually just walk into the wood where they went and find them pretty quickly.

This is front the other night. 200 yards high shoulder that deflected to an exit, DRT.


This was 20 minutes ago. 200 yards between the shoulder and neck while looking at me. No exit but everything was soup. Flipped over backwards and DRT.

 

[KyleR1985]

Regarding exits, I’d say it’s 50/50. A lot of times I’m purposely shooting high shoulder and if anything comes out it’s fragments. If I get a broadside double lung, it will certainly exit and have a decent blood trail. 90+% of the time I don’t need a blood trail. Deer are usually within 10 to 25 yards of where they are hit or DRT. If a deer does run, I can usually just walk into the wood where they went and find them pretty quickly.

This is front the other night. 200 yards high shoulder that deflected to an exit, DRT.
View attachment 890747

This was 20 minutes ago. 200 yards between the shoulder and neck while looking at me. No exit but everything was soup. Flipped over backwards and DRT.

View attachment 890748
View attachment 890749
View attachment 890750

This is just cruel. It’s June man! No fair!

 

[Timberline001]

I’ve got 2 xtra boxes of the 87s listed in the classifieds if anyone needs them

 

[KyleR1985]

For anyone else looking for a cheap point of entry on an action that suits the 6x45 well:

HOWA MINI ACT 350 LEG 16.25' HVY TB

<p>Howa Mini Action, Bolt Action Rifle, 350 Legend, 16.25' Heavy Threaded Barrel, Black Polymer Stock, Right Hand, 3 Round Mag, Manual Safety HMA350B</p>

dahlonegaarmory.com

I needed this like I need another hole in my head, but couldn’t pass up that price. 100 bucks cheaper than the cheapest barreled action at Brownells.

Figure I can get a few bucks for the stock and barrel.

For anyone considering going down same path:

Deal is legit. Rifle shipped immediately - no problems there - buy with confidence.


But the .350 legend action inlet IS DIFFERENT than the .223 and the 6ARC. I cannot confirm action inlet of a Grendel or Bushmaster or 7.62x39. How is it different? I'll post pictures in a second. But it has some lips on the action inlet that I assume help feed the legend cartridge in some way.

They have no impact on feeding .223 or 6x45 from a magazine - even though they stagger in the mag, they come out centered and "single feed".

But, if you're going with a hinged metal, which staggers the cartridges, the gun won't feed. Since I will likely be building this rifle to use with a hinged metal, I'll be taking this material off. Should be a very simple fix - I looked over the other actions I have pretty closely, and it's just a matter of removing a little material. I'll post results once I have a barrel chambered and gun assembled, and attempt the modification.

 

[KyleR1985]

For anyone considering going down same path:

Deal is legit. Rifle shipped immediately - no problems there - buy with confidence.


But the .350 legend action inlet IS DIFFERENT than the .223 and the 6ARC. I cannot confirm action inlet of a Grendel or Bushmaster or 7.62x39. How is it different? I'll post pictures in a second. But it has some lips on the action inlet that I assume help feed the legend cartridge in some way.

They have no impact on feeding .223 or 6x45 from a magazine - even though they stagger in the mag, they come out centered and "single feed".

But, if you're going with a hinged metal, which staggers the cartridges, the gun won't feed. Since I will likely be building this rifle to use with a hinged metal, I'll be taking this material off. Should be a very simple fix - I looked over the other actions I have pretty closely, and it's just a matter of removing a little material. I'll post results once I have a barrel chambered and gun assembled, and attempt the modification.

 

[longrangelead]

I was awake early this morning so I was fooling around drinking coffee.
Thought I'd post a comparison pic for those unfamiliar with the 6x45.

Messing with 6x45AI, it holds 31.3gr of XBR to the neck/shoulder.
pictured is the 108ELDM @2.60". I also had to see what a 6-204 would look like. Not much gain. A 6-204AI would be sweet except I'd have to actually pay for brass unlike the 6x45.

I'm seriously considering a 6x45AI in a Tikka using Waters mags to get the full potential of the cartridge.

The 108 is so long, the ogive would be down in the neck @ Howa mini/AR length. The 87 V-Max and 85 TSX BT are almost identical as far as bullet length, bt length and bearing surface length. Pictured is a 87 V-Max @ 2.275" which leaves a hair of bearing surface above the neck and will work in AR's and Howa minis.
The AI case also makes up for some of the bullet intrusion on case capacity.


I know this isn't new to some of you, just adding to the thread for reference.

 

[KyleR1985]

I was awake early this morning so I was fooling around drinking coffee.
Thought I'd post a comparison pic for those unfamiliar with the 6x45.
View attachment 900072
Messing with 6x45AI, it holds 31.3gr of XBR to the neck/shoulder.
pictured is the 108ELDM @2.60". I also had to see what a 6-204 would look like. Not much gain. A 6-204AI would be sweet except I'd have to actually pay for brass unlike the 6x45.

I'm seriously considering a 6x45AI in a Tikka using Waters mags to get the full potential of the cartridge.

The 108 is so long, the ogive would be down in the neck @ Howa mini/AR length. The 87 V-Max and 85 TSX BT are almost identical as far as bullet length, bt length and bearing surface length. Pictured is a 87 V-Max @ 2.275" which leaves a hair of bearing surface above the neck and will work in AR's and Howa minis.
The AI case also makes up for some of the bullet intrusion on case capacity.
View attachment 900086

I know this isn't new to some of you, just adding to the thread for reference.

Good stuff!


Tacking on a little extra info:

Vmax next to 6x45 case @ 2.45” - which fits in any of the Howa Mini aftermarket bottom metals with 25-30thou to spare. Pretty much optimally loaded.

The only measurement I’ve taken of a Saami 6x45 chamber with the vmax had it at the lands at 2.45”. So backing off to 2.42-2.43 would eat a little case capacity.

If you view the Howa mini aftermarket bottom metal as a necessity, which I do, the vmax/6x45/mini system makes a lot of sense.
Also, a windowed Howa mini mag lets you load at 2.4”.


I’m finishing up the handi 6x45 project first, but the mini is next on my list.






All of it is kind of dumb for the the Howa mini though - it comes in 6ARC. I just want it for an efficiency gain on reloading. I’m keeping .223 brass in bulk no matter what. Getting it is cheap and simple. Converting to 6mm bullets costs nothing essentially. This makes sense today, but I’m starting to pick up quite a bit of free 6ARC brass at the range as it becomes more popular…

 

[KyleR1985]

I was awake early this morning so I was fooling around drinking coffee.
Thought I'd post a comparison pic for those unfamiliar with the 6x45.
View attachment 900072
Messing with 6x45AI, it holds 31.3gr of XBR to the neck/shoulder.
pictured is the 108ELDM @2.60". I also had to see what a 6-204 would look like. Not much gain. A 6-204AI would be sweet except I'd have to actually pay for brass unlike the 6x45.

I'm seriously considering a 6x45AI in a Tikka using Waters mags to get the full potential of the cartridge.

The 108 is so long, the ogive would be down in the neck @ Howa mini/AR length. The 87 V-Max and 85 TSX BT are almost identical as far as bullet length, bt length and bearing surface length. Pictured is a 87 V-Max @ 2.275" which leaves a hair of bearing surface above the neck and will work in AR's and Howa minis.
The AI case also makes up for some of the bullet intrusion on case capacity.
View attachment 900086

I know this isn't new to some of you, just adding to the thread for reference.

I’ll also probably get a throating tool to add freebore to my handi rifle - might as well take the free(cheap) case capacity in the rifle that doesn’t have a mag limitation!

 

[TREE ‘EM]

I built a 6X45 on a Sako L461 action 12 years ago for my youngest son. I used a Broghton 5C, 10 twist barrel, and had a custom stock made by Brown Precision.
The only bullet I’ve ever loaded for it is the SierraGame King 85 grain.
The first 14 deer he took with it were all one shot kills, and all were DRT. He put a bad shot on his 15th deer which shook his confidence, so I took the next dozen deer with it, all were one shot kills, which restored his confidence in it.
If I were to build it again, I’d go with a faster twist rate. I have my doubts that anything heavier than 85 grains will stabilize well in a 10 twist.
I have another L4 61 action in the safe with plans to build a 6X45 for myself.

 

[Gstew1930]

I was awake early this morning so I was fooling around drinking coffee.
Thought I'd post a comparison pic for those unfamiliar with the 6x45.
View attachment 900072
Messing with 6x45AI, it holds 31.3gr of XBR to the neck/shoulder.
pictured is the 108ELDM @2.60". I also had to see what a 6-204 would look like. Not much gain. A 6-204AI would be sweet except I'd have to actually pay for brass unlike the 6x45.

I'm seriously considering a 6x45AI in a Tikka using Waters mags to get the full potential of the cartridge.

The 108 is so long, the ogive would be down in the neck @ Howa mini/AR length. The 87 V-Max and 85 TSX BT are almost identical as far as bullet length, bt length and bearing surface length. Pictured is a 87 V-Max @ 2.275" which leaves a hair of bearing surface above the neck and will work in AR's and Howa minis.
The AI case also makes up for some of the bullet intrusion on case capacity.
View attachment 900086

I know this isn't new to some of you, just adding to the thread for reference.

Damn it Mike, i had my mind made up on this 223 AI, i knew i shouldn't have looked at this thread lol

 

[83cj-7]

It’s been a slow year so far but I’ve got a few more. This was about 280 yards. She ran about 20 yards spraying blood all over.

 

[ztc92]

I was awake early this morning so I was fooling around drinking coffee.
Thought I'd post a comparison pic for those unfamiliar with the 6x45.
View attachment 900072
Messing with 6x45AI, it holds 31.3gr of XBR to the neck/shoulder.
pictured is the 108ELDM @2.60". I also had to see what a 6-204 would look like. Not much gain. A 6-204AI would be sweet except I'd have to actually pay for brass unlike the 6x45.

I'm seriously considering a 6x45AI in a Tikka using Waters mags to get the full potential of the cartridge.

The 108 is so long, the ogive would be down in the neck @ Howa mini/AR length. The 87 V-Max and 85 TSX BT are almost identical as far as bullet length, bt length and bearing surface length. Pictured is a 87 V-Max @ 2.275" which leaves a hair of bearing surface above the neck and will work in AR's and Howa minis.
The AI case also makes up for some of the bullet intrusion on case capacity.
View attachment 900086

I know this isn't new to some of you, just adding to the thread for reference.

I wish I hadn’t seen this, that 6x45 AI may be the perfect 6mm for someone like me that has a 6mm minimum but wishes they could use a 223. From reading, the 95 TMK is about 0.1” shorter than the 108 ELDM so may intrude a little less. I think a 95 TMK at 2700 FPS would do everything I want and it’s a very real possibility with the 6x45 AI in an 18” barrel…

 

[Thegman]

It’s been a slow year so far but I’ve got a few more. This was about 280 yards. She ran about 20 yards spraying blood all over.

What are the details? Was that the 87 V-Max? Was the blood from an exit, or...?

 

[longrangelead]

I wish I hadn’t seen this, that 6x45 AI may be the perfect 6mm for someone like me that has a 6mm minimum but wishes they could use a 223. From reading, the 95 TMK is about 0.1” shorter than the 108 ELDM so may intrude a little less. I think a 95 TMK at 2700 FPS would do everything I want and it’s a very real possibility with the 6x45 AI in an 18” barrel…

6x45AI +P?
If it matched the base rifle quick drop, that would be as good as it gets not being able to use a 223.

 

[ztc92]

6x45AI +P?
If it matched the base rifle quick drop, that would be as good as it gets not being able to use a 223.

My thoughts exactly. I was visiting with @Formidilosus about it the other day while complaining about the recoil in my 6.5Creed (yes I know how that sounds). He mentioned it works out really well with quick drop. Here’s what I get with 7000 DA, it’s a near perfect quick-drop and a 6 MPH gun, which is better than almost all 223 loads I’ve tested.

 

[KyleR1985]

I wish I hadn’t seen this, that 6x45 AI may be the perfect 6mm for someone like me that has a 6mm minimum but wishes they could use a 223. From reading, the 95 TMK is about 0.1” shorter than the 108 ELDM so may intrude a little less. I think a 95 TMK at 2700 FPS would do everything I want and it’s a very real possibility with the 6x45 AI in an 18” barrel…

Maybe even a 16”…

 

[83cj-7]

What are the details? Was that the 87 V-Max? Was the blood from an exit, or...?

87 V-max, that was the exit side.

 

[longrangelead]

My thoughts exactly. I was visiting with @Formidilosus about it the other day while complaining about the recoil in my 6.5Creed (yes I know how that sounds). He mentioned it works out really well with quick drop. Here’s what I get with 7000 DA, it’s a near perfect quick-drop and a 6 MPH gun, which is better than almost all 223 loads I’ve tested.

gotta love that!
BC makes up for a little loss in fps.

 

[KyleR1985]

First picture is a 6x45/95TMK touching lands in Satern 6x45 barrel with what I assume is SAAMI spec chamber. OAL is 2.558” +-.002”(crappy calipers). The dummy is sitting on top of a Jefferson mag box. You can see it sits just past front of mag box material at that length. Below it I have calipers set at 2.535” with the bullet next to case. You can see it’s pretty much optimally loaded there. No modification to a chamber necessary to run 6x45 and 95tmk in my opinion. However, the front of the action inlet would need to be opened up .050” to allow for the longer OAL to fit and feed. This looks very simple and no downside, but need to sit with it a while and think it through.

Next picture is that same 2.535” measurement on the mag box. You can see how little material would be left. I have a fix I’m going to communicate to JO. The 2.56” dummy cartridge fits through his bottom metal. I’ll see if I can get a new mag box built that gets the 2.535” length. Will report back with success or failure here. This step would come first then possible action inlet modification.





Last picture is 87vmax and 108eldm at 2.535”.

The vmax is beyond optimal loading so it would work fine with the bottom metal and box. But it Jams at 2.45” or so, and would need throating to load any longer (2.53-2.54 seems like max). But it’s a known killer and shooter at 2.3-2.4” lengths, getting somewhere around 2700 in a 16” barrel at under 2.4”. It’s perfect for the cartridge and gun. But if one wanted to chase velocity, they can just throat a Saami spec chamber, and not really need to modify action or mag.

The eldm is just too long to maximize efficiency without chamber modification(throating) and significant modification to the mini.


Will report back with any progress. Also, Sierra is silly, don’t expect 95tmk’s. I have been in continual communication with them about the bullets, and I have little faith in seeing them again. If I could find Nosler 95BT’s I’d look at all of this with them. But hard do anything besides using the Vmax given it’s track record, and this gun being a shorter range project.