6mm Creedmoor or 6.5 Creedmoor for Western Hunting

[Rooggvc]

Sell your 22creed and build a 6mm creed or good old 243 win and you’ll be money ahead and have the best of both worlds.

I have thought of doing just that. I figure the 6 Creed and a 223 would cover the vast majority of my needs.

 

[fwafwow]

Any rumors of Tikka or Sako coming out with a 6mm CM for the T3X or S20?

 

[Lawnboi]

I am currently waiting on a Hyperion K. So the gun will have a suppressor. I agree from a cost perspective the 6.5 makes more sense.

That extra money I save could go towards ammo. From a reloading perspective the 6.5 offers more options.

With a suppressor and a proper stock I think you will be happy with the ability to spot shots with a 6.5.

I have/had all three. I’d get the 6.5 just for the barrel life and ability to shoot a nrl match with it.

 

[TheCreeds]

I have been lurking for a while and it seems that smaller calibers are pretty popular on this website. I have also noticed their is a lot of photo's showing they can be very effective. If you were going to make the switch to a 6mm or 6.5 which cartridge and bullet are you picking? The poll shows the 6.5 has more votes. What do I gain or lose doing that 6.5 over a 6mm?

 

[ztc92]

I have been lurking for a while and it seems that smaller calibers are pretty popular on this website. I have also noticed their is a lot of photo's showing they can be very effective. If you were going to make the switch to a 6mm or 6.5 which cartridge and bullet are you picking? The poll shows the 6.5 has more votes. What do I gain or lose doing that 6.5 over a 6mm?

Currently wrestling with this exact decision for my next rifle and watching this thread with much interest. I currently have a Tikka CTR 6.5cm in a KRG bravo with a SWFA 3-15 and while I love it, I’ve realized it’s quite heavy for mountain hunting. My next rifle will be a lightweight Tikka specifically for hunting, most likely with an 18” barrel, suppressor, Stockys ROK-stock and an SWFA 3-9. So with all that in mind, I’ll try and summarize what I’ve learned in the process of researching for this build.

I think we can all agree that the 6.5cm and 6cm will both effectively take any game in North America with proper bullets at appropriate distances. This is well demonstrated by the 6mm and 6.5mm threads showing numerous kills with multiple bullets for each.

For me, I think there are 3 main points to wrestle with when considering 6mm vs 6.5mm
1) Difference in recoil and the effect this has on hit rates as well as ability to spot impacts.
2) Maximum effective range based on impact velocity for desired bullet.
3) Availability of factory rifles, factory ammo and if desired, good reloading components.

*Some may also highlight the difference in barrel life, but as I look to shoot more in the future, I’ve changed to an attitude that barrels are consumable and meant to be replaced, so this is not a factor for me.

To point 1: Form and others on this website often highlight the relationship of lower recoil and higher hit-rates. Form recently shared a great scale in another thread (see link below) and reviewed the hit rates associated with them, providing a strong argument that 6.5mm will be more challenging to shoot well than 6mm due to recoil. Adding a suppressor will help with both calibers but the 6mm still wins here.
To point 2: When I use a ballistic calculator with 108 ELD-M for the 6cm and 130 TMK for the 6.5cm with estimated velocities for an 18” barrel I find the 6cm is hitting 1800 FPS around 800 yards and the 6.5cm is hitting 1800 FPS around 650 yards. There are lots of variables that could skew this one way or the other but on average it seems the 6cm will reach minimal impact velocity with these bullets about 150 yards further than the 6.5cm. These distances are further than most (myself included) will likely ever shoot at an animal but it still seems worth mentioning as it is a significant difference.
To point 3: Prior to the new fast twist 1:8” .243 Tikkas, I think most would agree that the 6.5CM was the better factory option if you want to use a Tikka. Now the fast twist .243 has made this less true, though you’ll likely need to reload to take full advantage of the faster twist. If looking at a custom barrel or offerings from brands other than Tikka, then there are a number of other 6mm calibers to consider, the most obvious of which would be the 6cm. For me, I’d prefer to stick with a factory Tikka offering and I do reload, so I’m mostly torn between the new fast twist .243 and the 6.5cm.



Link to post discussing recoil and hit rates for those interested:


Post in thread '16" suppressed elk gun'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/16-suppressed-elk-gun.323809/post-3270621

 

[wind gypsy]

I like the 6 primarily because with a 18" tube like I want to shoot suppressed, 6.5s are getting pretty slow.

 

[fwafwow]

Currently wrestling with this exact decision for my next rifle and watching this thread with much interest. I currently have a Tikka CTR 6.5cm in a KRG bravo with a SWFA 3-15 and while I love it, I’ve realized it’s quite heavy for mountain hunting. My next rifle will be a lightweight Tikka specifically for hunting, most likely with an 18” barrel, suppressor, Stockys ROK-stock and an SWFA 3-9. So with all that in mind, I’ll try and summarize what I’ve learned in the process of researching for this build.

I think we can all agree that the 6.5cm and 6cm will both effectively take any game in North America with proper bullets at appropriate distances. This is well demonstrated by the 6mm and 6.5mm threads showing numerous kills with multiple bullets for each.

For me, I think there are 3 main points to wrestle with when considering 6mm vs 6.5mm
1) Difference in recoil and the effect this has on hit rates as well as ability to spot impacts.
2) Maximum effective range based on impact velocity for desired bullet.
3) Availability of factory rifles, factory ammo and if desired, good reloading components.

*Some may also highlight the difference in barrel life, but as I look to shoot more in the future, I’ve changed to an attitude that barrels are consumable and meant to be replaced, so this is not a factor for me.

To point 1: Form and others on this website often highlight the relationship of lower recoil and higher hit-rates. Form recently shared a great scale in another thread (see link below) and reviewed the hit rates associated with them, providing a strong argument that 6.5mm will be more challenging to shoot well than 6mm due to recoil. Adding a suppressor will help with both calibers but the 6mm still wins here.
To point 2: When I use a ballistic calculator with 108 ELD-M for the 6cm and 130 TMK for the 6.5cm with estimated velocities for an 18” barrel I find the 6cm is hitting 1800 FPS around 800 yards and the 6.5cm is hitting 1800 FPS around 650 yards. There are lots of variables that could skew this one way or the other but on average it seems the 6cm will reach minimal impact velocity with these bullets about 150 yards further than the 6.5cm. These distances are further than most (myself included) will likely ever shoot at an animal but it still seems worth mentioning as it is a significant difference.
To point 3: Prior to the new fast twist 1:8” .243 Tikkas, I think most would agree that the 6.5CM was the better factory option if you want to use a Tikka. Now the fast twist .243 has made this less true, though you’ll likely need to reload to take full advantage of the faster twist. If looking at a custom barrel or offerings from brands other than Tikka, then there are a number of other 6mm calibers to consider, the most obvious of which would be the 6cm. For me, I’d prefer to stick with a factory Tikka offering and I do reload, so I’m mostly torn between the new fast twist .243 and the 6.5cm.



Link to post discussing recoil and hit rates for those interested:


Post in thread '16" suppressed elk gun'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/16-suppressed-elk-gun.323809/post-3270621

Well done. As for #3, we just need Tikka or Sako to come out with a 6cm!

 

[atmat]

*Some may also highlight the difference in barrel life, but as I look to shoot more in the future, I’ve changed to an attitude that barrels are consumable and meant to be replaced, so this is not a factor for me.

For me, I’d prefer to stick with a factory Tikka offering and I do reload, so I’m mostly torn between the new fast twist .243 and the 6.5cm.

Another option is to start with either, and when you inevitably re-barrel move to the 6creed then.

 

[ztc92]

Another option is to start with either, and when you inevitably re-barrel move to the 6creed then.

This may very well be what I decide to do for the simplicity of having two 6.5cm’s rather than a 6.5cm and a 243. Hopefully by the time I shoot out the the 6.5cm barrel I’ll be competent enough to take advantage of the 6cm’s longer effective range.

 

[TheCreeds]

After a lot of reading I am leaning heavily towards the 6mm Creedmoor. I have a Tikka Action that needs a new barrel so I may as well try it out for myself.

 

[Carl Ross]

Any rumors of Tikka or Sako coming out with a 6mm CM for the T3X or S20?

Having talked candidly with some folks from Beretta and inquiring about exactly that, I’m not expecting it anytime soon, but who knows when the Fin’s whims will change. Creedmoor is certainly the direction the wind is blowing.

I built a 6CM on a Tikka about 12 years ago, sold it mostly because it didn’t group as good as my GAP 6.5x47 with the bullets I tried. It’s a great idea, not sure if I had an underperforming barrel or what.

If you’re planning on using factory mags and are a hand loader, I’d personally try to find a 1-8 243, give it a go, and rebarrel to 6 CM if and only if it didn’t meet expectations. Tikka actions cost almost as much as Tikka rifles, it’s a cheap lottery ticket IMO. Since you can get extra long Tikka magazines, you can have a 3.00” limit on your 243 which makes all the long bullets pretty viable.

 

[grahambiel]

I’ve also been thinking a lot about this and am leaning towards getting a .243 and then eventually rebarreling to a 6mm down the road.

For a little more than the cost of a rebarrel I can buy a .223 as a trainer. I don’t reload but can either buy some .243 rounds from UM or get a buddy to roll me some to take advantage of the fast twist

 

[passinggas33]

I too was thinking of buying/building a tikka 6 creed. I’ve held off for now but another option that hadn’t crossed my mind was to buy a tikka .243 1-8 twist and have it rechambered to 6creed. Might save you a little over rebarreling?

I just did this exact thing. You can pick up a 243 with 1/8 twist for $625. Another $100 for a rechamber and I’m good to go.

 

[Legend]

I just did this exact thing. You can pick up a 243 with 1/8 twist for $625. Another $100 for a rechamber and I’m good to go.

What gunsmith did you find to rechamber for $100? I assume they pull the barrel off? This sounds like a good option.

 

[passinggas33]

My local gunsmith who is fantastic. He might be giving me a break because he’s done so much work for me in years past.

 

[ztc92]

For anyone interested, I was planning to go with the 243 but then found a great deal on a new Tikka lite in 6.5cm for $630 BEFORE the rebate so I simply couldn’t pass it up. It will be nice to have affordable factory ammo for practicing, as I’ve learned I don’t enjoy bulk reloading of 200+ rounds just for shooting steel and paper. I also have a nice supply of 130TMK and am setup to reload 6.5CM so it just made more sense to stick with this for right now.

I’m hoping to cut the barrel to 18” and put it in a rok-stok soon, with the goal of having it ready to practice with this summer and then hunt this fall. Planning to shoot it lots and maybe even try some NRL matches with it this summer. Then when I eventually burn out the barrel it will be a perfect donor action for a 6CM build!

 

[Pilsner]

The 6.5 is manageable in a light gun with a suppressor. That would be the deciding factor for me, what you’re going to shoot on the muzzle? They have similar ballistics but the 6.5 is beyond what I want for recoil if you’re shooting bare muzzle in a sub 10 pound gun.

The 6 is also a barrel burner.

Why is the 6 creed (case capacity ~53 grains) a barrel burner and the .243 (capacity ~53 grains) not a barrel burner?
The respective chamber pressures aren't much different either 60k vs 62k.
What am I missing?
Thanks.

 

[General RE LEE]

Why is the 6 creed (case capacity ~53 grains) a barrel burner and the .243 (capacity ~53 grains) not a barrel burner?
The respective chamber pressures aren't much different either 60k vs 62k.
What am I missing?
Thanks.

Good question and my guess would be twist rate?

 

[Lawnboi]

Why is the 6 creed (case capacity ~53 grains) a barrel burner and the .243 (capacity ~53 grains) not a barrel burner?
The respective chamber pressures aren't much different either 60k vs 62k.
What am I missing?
Thanks.

They are both barrel burners

 

[Pilsner]

They are both barrel burners

Oddly this was something I hadn't considered. Always heard barrel life of 243 was about the same as it's parent 308 chambering (aka forever or ~5k rounds whichever comes first).
Learn something every day on here
*Tips hat*