6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

[omicron1792]

Dont take this wrong way as I totally agree with putting the elk down and would have done it myself, but just as an FYI - a lot of states, at least here in Idaho, consider the shot that killed the elk the person who is supposed to tag it. By Idaho law F&G would say you "harvested 2 elk".... Again, not an issue with putting an elk down, just might not want to say that on a public hunting forum...

That sounds like DOGE needs to get involved if they have enough time to worry about that.

 

[Timjohnson11]

Agree with ScreamingPotatoe here. Hard to argue with dead but that is concerning in my opinion. I killed a cow elk this past fall with a near identical position/bullet entry with the same Berger 108 Elite Hunter. The only difference is my shot was under 50 yards (coming from a 24" 6 creed with 2925 ish muzzle velocity). She was head on and dropped dead right there, she was lights out in under 10 seconds.. I didn't open her up (gutless method) as I had my 4 year old with me and had limited time before dark but it stoned her pretty good. I didn't notice an exit but did notice one side of the ribs was blood shot down at the very back of the rib cage as I was pulling a quarter off. Something made it atleast that far.

 

[solarshooter]

Agree with ScreamingPotatoe here. Hard to argue with dead but that is concerning in my opinion. I killed a cow elk this past fall with a near identical position/bullet entry with the same Berger 108 Elite Hunter. The only difference is my shot was under 50 yards (coming from a 24" 6 creed with 2925 ish muzzle velocity). She was head on and dropped dead right there, she was lights out in under 10 seconds.. I didn't open her up (gutless method) as I had my 4 year old with me and had limited time before dark but it stoned her pretty good. I didn't notice an exit but did notice one side of the ribs was blood shot down at the very back of the rib cage as I was pulling a quarter off. Something made it atleast that far.

Sounds like you made it into the main cavity. I was thinking maybe I hit the "point" of the shoulder (not sure what the bone is called but the one below the scapula), but there isn't evidence of any damage there on the quarter, and generally the impact and angle were further inboard then that. Other explanation is perhaps she was at much more of an angle than it appeared, but I think that's really unlikely as she would need to be almost 90deg from how she appeared to be oriented to me.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Hmm. Thank you for posting that. I would prefer more straight line penetration to get to the vitals. That deflection is interesting.

 

[will_brap]

The Mounting guys went over their experience with 6 CM killing 2 moose and 2 caribou. The link below is pretty useful because it includes the podcast, pics/video links to their 6 CM experience and podcast with Form giving background info on the importance of bullet construction, impact velocity and limited recoil in hunting situations.

https://exomtngear.com/blogs/article/using-the-6mm-creedmoor-for-big-game-hunting

 

[Ajsomp]

Anyone running the factory loaded Barnes 112? Seen some good reports and some okay reports. Eldm seems to be the standard go to but the match burners seem to be another solid option specs wise for those of us not hand loading

 

[Poe]

Hmm. Thank you for posting that. I would prefer more straight line penetration to get to the vitals. That deflection is interesting.

The deflection could also possibly just be a 1 off. I had an experience once shooting a white tail with 150gr interbonds out of a 300 win mag. I hit a running buck quartering away at around 200 yards. Bullet entered just clipping the back of the shoulder blade. The bullet hit the rib cage and then deflected off the ribs staying between the ribs and hide and I found the bullet under the hide in the neck. The bullet never entered the chest cavity but the shock must have been enough to do some damage because he ran about 50 more yards and died. I would bet money I could shoot another 100 deer with that combo and never have it happen again

 

[solarshooter]

Got an opportunity to test my 6CM on an elk damage control tag. Shooting the Berger 108gr Elite Hunter at 2760fps out of this gun. Found the herd at 150yds, ended up shooting a cow frontal at 130-150yds, impact velocity ~2540fps. She ran <100yds and piled up dead against a tree within 5mins (I don't know exact time to death, but I found her dead within 5 mins). Hit just to the right of center of chest, and slightly angled away:
View attachment 861456

Entry and first couple inches through hide and outer neck meat/front of right quarter meat was small diameter. Massive bloodshoot and bleeding in neck on right side, lots of meat lost in this area, basically turned to jelly:
View attachment 861457

Then the bullet hit ribs/sternum/front of right shoulder bone and blew a fist sized hole through all that:
View attachment 861459

At this point I think the bullet deflected off the bone and went laterally across the body cavity - I found it just under the hide immediately in front of the left shoulder:
View attachment 861461

It looked like a classic "magazine mushroom", which I really wasn't expecting:
View attachment 861463
View attachment 861466

52.7/108 = 49% weight retention:
View attachment 861467

Overall I'm very happy with how the bullet and the overall rifle system performed. I'm a little surprised by how much the bullet deflected, but it clearly hit enough major arteries on it's path to cause massive lethal bleeding, maybe also took out the airways and caused suffocation. There wasn't much visible blood or trauma in the main body cavity, lungs were mostly intact and not bloody. I'm guessing she bled out mostly into her neck area judging by how much blood/bloodshot was accumulated there, I didn't find much of a blood trail but that doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Just did some more detailed examination of this bullet I recovered (compared next to a Berger 108 Elite Hunter below):

It's a flat base bullet, not a boat tail.

It also measures 0.223-0.225 at the base:


And lastly, it has 6 grooves, but my barrel has 5.

This bullet came from a different gun, likely a .22 cal, and must've healed over.

Therefore I revise my assessment, I think my bullet blew clear through and made that huge hole, and must've ended up somewhere in the main body cavity. Crazy stuff!

 

[stan_wa]

That is wild. and it goes to prove .243 kills better than .223. you can not post the failure in the .223 thread haha just kidding.
any idea where the entrance of the 22 Cal would have been?

 

[justin davis]

Just did some more detailed examination of this bullet I recovered (compared next to a Berger 108 Elite Hunter below):
View attachment 865051
It's a flat base bullet, not a boat tail.

It also measures 0.223-0.225 at the base:
View attachment 865052

And lastly, it has 6 grooves, but my barrel has 5.

This bullet came from a different gun, like a .22 cal, and must've healed over.

Therefore I revise my assessment, I think my bullet blew clear through and made that huge hole, and must've ended up somewhere in the main body cavity. Crazy stuff!

Wow that’s interesting turn of events

 

[solarshooter]

The bullet was under the hide and some tissue on the left front shoulder, just forward of the "point" of the shoulder. So I'd guess it came from that side and stopped immediately, or maybe from the front and hit the point and stopped. Other most likely option to me is entered on the right side and punched all the way through, but seems like that would be more likely to be a lethal shot?

 

[Ajsomp]

[

Just did some more detailed examination of this bullet I recovered (compared next to a Berger 108 Elite Hunter below):
View attachment 865051
It's a flat base bullet, not a boat tail.

It also measures 0.223-0.225 at the base:
View attachment 865052

And lastly, it has 6 grooves, but my barrel has 5.

This bullet came from a different gun, likely a .22 cal, and must've healed over.

Therefore I revise my assessment, I think my bullet blew clear through and made that huge hole, and must've ended up somewhere in the main body cavity. Crazy stuff!

And it was 52 grains? That’s a lot of retention there

 

[HairyScandinavian]

The bullet was under the hide and some tissue on the left front shoulder, just forward of the "point" of the shoulder. So I'd guess it came from that side and stopped immediately, or maybe from the front and hit the point and stopped. Other most likely option to me is entered on the right side and punched all the way through, but seems like that would be more likely to be a lethal shot?

Appears to be nicely mushroomed, leads me to believe it went through a "normal" amount of tissue.

 

[solarshooter]

[

And it was 52 grains? That’s a lot of retention there

Appears to be nicely mushroomed, leads me to believe it went through a "normal" amount of tissue.

Yeah and that mushroom was weird to me if you go read my original post, not characteristic of a Berger. I'm guessing it was a lighter bonded 22 cal of some kind, and yes may have come in on the right side and gone all the way through to the left.

 

[Bugger]

Just did some more detailed examination of this bullet I recovered (compared next to a Berger 108 Elite Hunter below):
View attachment 865051
It's a flat base bullet, not a boat tail.

It also measures 0.223-0.225 at the base:
View attachment 865052

And lastly, it has 6 grooves, but my barrel has 5.

This bullet came from a different gun, likely a .22 cal, and must've healed over.

Therefore I revise my assessment, I think my bullet blew clear through and made that huge hole, and must've ended up somewhere in the main body cavity. Crazy stuff!

That’s crazy. I’m not aware of what 22 cal would have such a sharp flat base and still be 52gr after likely losing some to frag based on the expansion. Even the 64gr bonded solid base has a small boat tail. Looks like a prior year shot seeing as there’s no bruising or green crud around it, but it would be tough to place a bullet there from the opposite side without some serious damage to something important. Then again, your Berger probably mangled anything that would have given away the old injury. Curious what the forum consensus will be.

 

[The Harbor Master]

Wow! That's pretty interesting. Your details on spotting your shot, comfortable shooting, etc are perfect examples of what's pushing me away from magnums to a 6CM. Thanks for sharing.

 

[solarshooter]

That’s crazy. I’m not aware of what 22 cal would have such a sharp flat base and still be 52gr after likely losing some to frag based on the expansion. Even the 64gr bonded solid base has a small boat tail. Looks like a prior year shot seeing as there’s no bruising or green crud around it, but it would be tough to place a bullet there from the opposite side without some serious damage to something important. Then again, your Berger probably mangled anything that would have given away the old injury. Curious what the forum consensus will be.

I would bet a majority of 22 cal guns are ARs in .223/5.56, and I would bet a majority of .223/5.56 ammo out there is 55gr FMJ. I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was as simple as that, and the cannelure acted to lock the jacket to the core. Can FMJs exhibit this type of mushrooming, or is it more likely an OTM, maybe still with a cannelure? Maybe @Formidilosus has some input/experience here.

 

[Formidilosus]

I would bet a majority of 22 cal guns are ARs in .223/5.56, and I would bet a majority of .223/5.56 ammo out there is 55gr FMJ. I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was as simple as that, and the cannelure acted to lock the jacket to the core. Can FMJs exhibit this type of mushrooming, or is it more likely an OTM, maybe still with a cannelure? Maybe @Formidilosus has some input/experience here.

It’s a safe bet that bullet did not penetrate from the opposite side.
The most probable, and logical answer is that it was a shoot though- which is where nearly all/all fully expanded perfect looking, caught bullets that are 1” under the skin come from. It’s extremely common in elk, and most common in cows (due to large herds).

This is a 180gr Accubond from a 30 cal mag that was found in the backstrap of a bull I killed this last year- it was a shoot through of another bull. To the left is the jacket and base of a 95gr TMK that went through both scapulas.






Penetrated about 1” and stopped.

 

[solarshooter]

It’s a safe bet that bullet did not penetrate from the opposite side.
The most probable, and logical answer is that it was a shoot though- which is where nearly all/all fully expanded perfect looking, caught bullets that are 1” under the skin come from. It’s extremely common in elk, and most common in cows (due to large herds).

This is a 180gr Accubond from a 30 cal mag that was found in the backstrap of a bull I killed this last year- it was a shoot through of another bull. To the left is the jacket and base of a 95gr TMK that went through both scapulas.


View attachment 865108



Penetrated about 1” and stopped.

View attachment 865103

Shit the gif doesn't work.... MIND BLOWN

 

[KyleR1985]

Man I really hope this story ends with another member confirming that’s their .223 bullet…

Fun stuff