65mm spotter.....can anything run with the Swaro ATS HD?

[tdhanses]

You should rent all the options your considering, it’ll add some expense but this is a big purchase and it may help you find what’s best for you.

 

[tdhanses]

After using phoneskope, multiple versions and novagrade, having to change out inserts to go from binos to spotter, yup I digiscope from binos at times. This is what I’ve found to be the best multi optic digiscoping setup https://scopecamadapter.com/shop/phonecam/case-kit-combos/universal-phonecam-branded-case/

The little Kowa does great at digiscoping as long as the animal is further then 100yds away. I think you see these come up for sale for a few reasons, to try something new, the short fov and needing money.

I’ve had my Kowa 55 since it was released, in that time I sold my Sawro 80mm and replaced it with a Kowa 77. Only way I would sell my 55 is if Kowa released a new version that doesn’t have a fixed eyepiece or has the better wa eyepiece used in the 77, 88 and 99.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I'm the OP. Like to say thanks for the responses, as these really do help make decisions. I am 50yrs old and getting cranky, but it's not pointed at anyone here. Like every YouTube video where a round hits outside the group "That one was me".....bullshit. Call it what it is.....it's a 2" group.

I DONT think optics are that subjective. Maybe the eye relief and eyebox are....or how easy they are to get behind gives you a warmer fuzzy....but crisp and clear are just that.

My Meopta S2 is FUGGIN HUGE.....it takes up a ton of pack space. But as I said....I enjoy the pics and digiscoping a ton. I am constantly fiddling with my NovaGrade and phone.

I am not "married" to only the 65mm. I looked over the Kowa's before pulling the trigger on the Meopta.

When I run the numbers, I am not seeing a ton of disparity across the big scopes. I think my huge Meopta with the eye piece comes in at 3.9 pounds. That 77mm Kowa at 3.65 if I converted grams to pounds accurately. That does not show me enough of a weight savings to dump $2400. The ATX is out. Just too much money.

The Swaro appeals to me for a handful of reasons. It just seems "sleek" and compact. Overall much smaller and trim and would slide into a pack pocket or inside the pack. As I said, the S2 huge.

The little Kowa 55mm spooks me a little. Too small? There are a ton that come up for sale used. They are not staying once purchased.

No, I am not considering a Vortex. Was only agreeing that some of the Japanese original glass was very very good. I have zero issues with Japan optics. Maybe even prefer them.

There’s a point where “good enough” is truly “good enough”. Your S2 sounds like it works well for you. At that point it’s a hard pill to swallow to get a potential incremental upgrade and shave a few ounces at this price point; even with selling the S2.

Starting from scratch and going to the Kowa 77x or Swaro STS 65, as an example, or upgrading from a low end spotter, Vortex Diamondback as an example, can easily change the math.

Am curious about why folks are parting ways with their Kowa 55x. How many are from folks that use their spotter for glassing versus getting confirmations? How many are “counting inches” versus “shooter vs non-shooter”? I know that I won’t part ways with my Kowa 554 even though I do own a STX 65/95.

I know I went with the STX specifically for the modularity. Could have grabbed the STS 65 and been “good”; would have saved some coin and weight as well without giving up much in clarity.

But we are very lucky to be living in a golden age of optics. Lots of solid choices at various price points.

 

[Jimss]

I haven't read through posts but when I'm asked the best of the best in spotters I would either look at either Swaro or Leica. I know there are a lot of Kowa fans but that's just my thoughts after getting years upon years of viewing through both Leicas and Swaros. As I've stated in several posts I would buy an almost new Leica or Swaro before I bought a brand new other brand. I bought an almost new Swaro on the classified section of this website for about 1/3 off new price several years ago and it's been amazing. I also bought a pair of Leia bino/rangefinder binos that were demos from Cameraland that was a huge chunk off the price....it was almost brand spanking new.

If it were me and $ is an issue I would buy the top of the top of the best available...slightly used! Be picky and you'll get a heck of a deal!

 

[fatrascal]

Thanks, I too find the scope cam easiest to deal with and adjust from bino's to spotter very well.
I love optics and read the optics forum every day. Over that time I've gained a lot of respect for the guys who post in the optics forum on a regular basis. Guys like tdhanses, AZ_Hunter_2000, Blue72 and many others. But I also find myself with a different opinion. So much to the point that I question my eye sight at times, lol. Apparently my 58 year old far sighted eyes see things differently. This brings up the Kowa 55. I owne this little scope and like it. But the fov as stated many times by many people is truley small. Comparing it to my atx 65, which is not a fair test, I find that the edges of the view in the 55 are not clear. I got it because I have injuries to my feet, knees, and hips and the weight of my pack is starting to give me considerable trouble. The 55 is lightweight and takes a small amount of space. I've had it for two hunting seasons and as of yet I have left it at home because I'm not willing to do without the excellent view of the swarovski atx 65. I love to digiscope and edge to edge clarity and field of view is important to me and so far I cannot sacrifice the quality of a bigger scope over the 55. The day will come when I will decide to leave the 65mm at home and take the 55 for weight savings not because I want to but because I will have to if I want to continue backpack hunting. Not trying to put down the 55 because I do feel like its good enough to leave the 65 at home in the future and I'm thankful to have a tool for that purpose. But I definitely can see a difference between a swaro 65 and a kowa 55.
If I was a young hunter, or even an older hunter with no body ailments, then I would personally stick with the 65. In my opinion the quality difference is apparent.
I cannot give an opinion on the Kowa 77 but due to the fact that its a 77 it should let in more light over a 65. The view should be better. It would be accurately compared to the swarovski 80mm. But I'm sure its a great scope due to the opinion of many people on this forum.
At the end of the day if I wanted a 65 for the reasons you have mentioned then I would go for the swarovski, leica, or zeiss and maybe add the meopta to that list.
Fatrascal.

 

[BBob]

@fatrascal I'm of the same opinion on the little 55. I've borrowed one to test and for me I'll take the compromise of carrying the larger heavier STM-65. The 55 just doesn't do it for me and I choose to cut weight elsewhere.

 

[fatrascal]

BBob, thanks, I was beginning to question myself, ha ha. Fatrascal.

 

[BBob]

The Swaro appeals to me for a handful of reasons. It just seems "sleek" and compact. Overall much smaller and trim and would slide into a pack pocket or inside the pack. As I said, the S2 huge.

The straight S series Swaro fit's this description for me. It fits in the pack just right. Sometimes I carry bigger and sometimes much bigger but my "compact" choice is a straight 65.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

For anyone still tuned in re: Swaro 65, I've read on other forums or links in a search that the 25-50 WA eyepiece on the 65HD is an "upgrade" on noticeable improvement over the "standard" 20-60.

Anyone have direct experience with these two eye pieces?

RE: Renting. The owner of the rental company reached out to me. I think it's a great idea if only for a weekend to just glass a little side by side and see.

 

[tdhanses]

I prefered the 25-50 on my swaro but some get a kidney bean effect from what i remember, i never had this issue but just something to beware of. If you buy new you can by the body only and then pick out your eyepiece at some retailers i believe.

 

[tdhanses]

Quick size comparison between my 55 and 77. The swaro 65 is closer in size to the 77.

 

[BBob]

For anyone still tuned in re: Swaro 65, I've read on other forums or links in a search that the 25-50 WA eyepiece on the 65HD is an "upgrade" on noticeable improvement over the "standard" 20-60.

Anyone have direct experience with these two eye pieces?

RE: Renting. The owner of the rental company reached out to me. I think it's a great idea if only for a weekend to just glass a little side by side and see.

Yes, I have posted in other threads about the two eyepieces. I do not own 20-60's anymore and switched to the 25-50's shortly after they became available. 25-50's are superior and more-so on the 65.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Thanks, I too find the scope cam easiest to deal with and adjust from bino's to spotter very well.
I love optics and read the optics forum every day. Over that time I've gained a lot of respect for the guys who post in the optics forum on a regular basis. Guys like tdhanses, AZ_Hunter_2000, Blue72 and many others. But I also find myself with a different opinion. So much to the point that I question my eye sight at times, lol. Apparently my 58 year old far sighted eyes see things differently. This brings up the Kowa 55. I owne this little scope and like it. But the fov as stated many times by many people is truley small. Comparing it to my atx 65, which is not a fair test, I find that the edges of the view in the 55 are not clear. I got it because I have injuries to my feet, knees, and hips and the weight of my pack is starting to give me considerable trouble. The 55 is lightweight and takes a small amount of space. I've had it for two hunting seasons and as of yet I have left it at home because I'm not willing to do without the excellent view of the swarovski atx 65. I love to digiscope and edge to edge clarity and field of view is important to me and so far I cannot sacrifice the quality of a bigger scope over the 55. The day will come when I will decide to leave the 65mm at home and take the 55 for weight savings not because I want to but because I will have to if I want to continue backpack hunting. Not trying to put down the 55 because I do feel like its good enough to leave the 65 at home in the future and I'm thankful to have a tool for that purpose. But I definitely can see a difference between a swaro 65 and a kowa 55.
If I was a young hunter, or even an older hunter with no body ailments, then I would personally stick with the 65. In my opinion the quality difference is apparent.
I cannot give an opinion on the Kowa 77 but due to the fact that its a 77 it should let in more light over a 65. The view should be better. It would be accurately compared to the swarovski 80mm. But I'm sure its a great scope due to the opinion of many people on this forum.
At the end of the day if I wanted a 65 for the reasons you have mentioned then I would go for the swarovski, leica, or zeiss and maybe add the meopta to that list.
Fatrascal.

Always trust your eyes as you are the one looking through the optic.

I likely would not have picked up my 554 if I paid full price; especially considering I already have the STX 65 and 95. If starting from scratch, the full price is too close to the Kowa 77X and Swaro STS; most folks would be better served paying a few hundred more for those unless they really are pursuing the ultra light concept.

But when I need (or want) to run "light", the little 554 rocks. It is nice saving ~3 pounds between the spotting scope and lighter tripod. I've found that I do not give up that much with it over my STX 65. But like everything else related to hunting, everything is a compromise. There are times more magnification would be nice; but I've been in the same situation with the STX 95 as well.

I could have run the STS 65 (or comparable) and been good. There's a point where you're splitting some expensive hairs.

With all that said, thank you for the reminder about digiscoping. Despite having everything I need to do it with all of my optics, that is something that I rarely do. I'll add it to my 2022 Hunting Resolutions list.

 

[fatrascal]

Here is a picture of the Kowa 55 beside the Swarovski atx 65. Judging from tdhanses photo I would say that the Kowa 77 is about the same as the Swaro 65. So as far as taking up space it does a pretty good job of being compact. Fatrascal

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Thanks for the comparison pic. That 55 Kowa is a micro lil SOB isnt it!

 

[tdhanses]

Thanks for the comparison pic. That 55 Kowa is a micro lil SOB isnt it!

It is tiny! You can also get an inexpensive carbon tripod for it that is around 1lb but i still prefer my slik 624 for it.

 

[tdhanses]

Quick tripod size comparison, the little one used with the RRS head is at around 1lb, running the Kowa 55 allows for you to drop more weight if desired in your tripod setup.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Since it’s my thread and don’t mind a bit of a derail…and digiscoping is a concern

Anyone else have comparison pics to share? Not my best. Montana prairie winds never help. And yardage to me is important and often left out. Need it to stay relative

Think this was 1340 yards. Doubt max power. The S2 Meopta. A touch of auto edit but no crop.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Think lots of optics look identical and ok inside 1000 yards on blue bird days. It’s less than ideal and beyond that sort Good from Great

 

[BBob]

Think lots of optics look identical and ok inside 1000 yards on blue bird days. It’s less than ideal and beyond that sort Good from Great

Absolutely