6.5CM vs .308 Vortex Video

[Short Track]

I've watched this video multiple times. I'm a believer.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Short Track in training mode.

You take from that gel test whatever you wish. Doing more work over less distance is what drt's more things.

Put my old 140gr accubonds in .270 win or wsm in that comparison against my 6.5 Grendel with 123gr eld-m's and you'd maybe laugh at how much 'better' the .270's look in gel and think who would even compare such a wimp to the .270?

HOWEVER, my Grendel eld-m combo drt's almost everything and if it runs it's usually 15 yards with the odd 50 yard recovery....AND....with my old .270's with 140 ab's more things ran 100 yards than not with very few drt's.

SO...there's a bit more to the 'magic formula' than max depth in gel if best killy factor is what you want.

Dead is not dead. There's a difference in dead right there and still in sight vs dead over the backside of the ridge in the bottom of the thick stuff.

The more you go deep penetration formula (ie; mono/bonded) the more you're likely to have things die where you don't want them to die and or have a bit of an adventure finding them.

We can get way nerdier on the topic if needed but short story is you shoot a variable sd bullet into variable substance. Inflight ballistics is easy as the bullet is static and only the environmentals are the variable and easily mathed for as guys land them into milk jugs at 2 miles or some sh1t now...so the math is figured out. It is objective and there's no arguing about it any longer, it's in calculators in our pockets.

What we don't math is terminal ballistics. We don't measure bullets 'rate of change' when the swimming starts in a comparative manor with a standard base swimming material. Measuring inches of penetration in gel tells you almost nothing. Measuring an expansion of say 2.5x or whatever, tells you almost as little.

But in the case of that gel test with the lead bullets and the larger wound cavity of the 308 over the 6.5cm is more work was done over the right distance through the swimming material. Ie; for those of us who subjective better than others, can immediately see that 308 at 100 yard shot would be the drt king over that 6.5cm on that same shot. So there may be a little too much sd in that 6.5cm formula for that particular 100 yard gel test where the 308 looked 100x better to me over the right distance as well. When the work leaves and goes into the hillside it's not drt'ing so much. It's formula you're after...not a headstamp.

We could perhaps measure ft/lbs per inch dump, sectional density per inch dump...but we don't do any of that yet so no calculators to see an objective view of terminal ballistics.

So do like many and trial and error yourself via what you see when you pull trigger and when the knife comes out. Most formulas work and within a decent range. You'll find your own preferences in time. Sponge all you can from the kill threads on this forum where things are pushed to limits and documented better than most forums.

Bullets matter most. Cartridge matters least. Enjoy figuring out what works best for you. I'll be running ~.25 sd eld murders at moderate velocities for many many years to come. If I wanna go faster I'll add some sd to compensate. Pretty basic. Match the sd/construction/impact velocity...for game intended....and magic can be found. There is NO magic in the headstamp. Best you can do until 'rate of change' in swimming mode is measured across the board for comparative and objective purposes.

 

[Short Track]

Short Track in training mode.

Amazing how people get insulted by a Vortex video.
I have taken a Moose with my 6.5CM, 1 shot & 10 steps. Consider it DRT.
I have also taken 2 Sheep with a .270 ELD-X. 1 was DRT, the other went about 20 yards because it was a TX heart shot.
I have also taken a bull Elk with my .308. Took 4 TTSX into the lungs.
But please get insulted over a Vortex video.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

did you take my response as insulted? or worse...insulted by vortex?

amazing how people hear what they want to hear

I take your moose and raise you with one I took this fall with 308 (168 eldm) and went 2 steps

and my 4 sheep, 3 with .270 win or wsm with 140 ab's that only 1 drt'd and two went into the 100 yard range and 1 grendel (123 gr eldm) tip over backwards drt

we cool?

not feeling insulted or that I'm insulting back...you were fishing, you got a bite...enjoy the fight but I wouldn't break out the fish crisp just yet

for your 308 elk, try the 168 eldm next time and see if they will need 4 before getting onto the neighbours land lol, headstamp is not the droid you are looking for

 

[General RE LEE]

Some of the most impressive, lights out kills I’ve ever seen were with a 175 grain 308.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

and then there are guys who love the 125gr ballistic tip for that too

how do you go wrong with the 308? Creedmoor schmeedmoor needsmoor

 

[Short Track]

I still believe the 7mm-08 is the best all-around cartridge. Elk.. Bear. Not over gunned not under gunned. 140gr partitions or AB if the gun likes them.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I still believe the 7mm-08 is the best all-around cartridge. Elk.. Bear. Not over gunned not under gunned. 140gr partitions or AB if the gun likes them.

could be, but between it and the 2 others listed here it's splitting c-hairs for killing if same type of bullet is used as most killing done in a certain window of range by most trigger pullers, so list out all the pros and cons and apply to what you do, need, and want, and how could you go wrong? the game won't be able to tell the difference, you won't either

ie; I only shoot factory ammo so the 7-08 will rank lowest on my list of these 3, also like to think about resale and couple other things, I want the high volume white box match cartridges likely to be on shelf for a long time, and between manbun and 308 I don't need the extra hit probability potential the manbun offers as it's well past where I'll be done shooting at game anyway to take advantage, I'll take the front loaded wallop factor, even if imaginary, and the recoil of either is of no consequence to me either, and I already have smaller 6.5's as the light hitter option, the 308 win is my 'fun magnum'

would g-bears and general purpose be on the menu of factors? I know it didn't take me long to skip the 6.5 Creedmoor upgrade over my 6.5 grendel when a big ole g-bear strolled through my camp 2 seasons ago and I was sitting beside a 16" barrel 6.5 grendel, what do you want laying beside you for 'mental comfort' when that happens? imaginary comfort? maybe...but something about 123gr at 2400 fps wasn't feeling that comfy, 168 at 2600 (20" barrel) with same sd is already giving me more potentially imaginary comfort in that wallop factor is hopefully a thing, they will both go pretty close to same depth but I think more 'work' will be done with the other, if dumping another 39% more 'work' over same distance I guess I'm 39% more comfortable lol (1573 ft/lbs over say 20" in danger floof vs 2522 ft/lbs over same 20"), to me this makes sense and wallop factor is real enough

it's all about the bullet, shoot mono's if you like hanging with Murphy with limited tags in your pocket and no neighbouring properties you don't have permission on, shoot proven match bullets if you hate murph

the headstamp doesn't matter, pick the bullets you want first, the cartridge decides itself when you math out the impact velocities you want to what ranges you wish to kill inside, easy formula, and many choices split the same c-hair, then layer in your other needs like do you want it off the shelf etc. as reloaders have a wider range of performance from any cartridge vs the off the shelf crowd, resale is a thing perhaps if you want to catch 'all buyers' or just the reloaders etc.?