6.5 PRC Once Fired Brass Sizing Trouble

[Gminobe]

Didn’t immediately find any threads pertaining to my situation so hopefully I’m not being too redundant .

Just got started in reloading with a buddy of mine. So far so good from choosing components, working up loads, taking them to the range and getting decent results. After the range, de primed and cleaned brass. We did “attempt” to anneal neck and shoulder using the most rudimentary methods, probably wasn’t very effective, or maybe it was. Will most likely not attempt to anneal next time.

Components for 6.5 PRC

Fierce carbon Fury 1-8.5 twist
H1000 powder 53.9-55.9gn initial load range
Federal 215 magnum primers
ADG 6.5 PRC brass never fired
Hornady eld-M 143 gn

RCBS single stage press
Redding FL sizing die, expander ball, de-priming needle removed.


After annealing and cooling the once fired brass we started to FL size and were immediately met with A LOT of resistance. Took out the case and made sure we had sufficient imperial sizing wax applied, we did. Tried again still met with a lot of resistance. Long story short, I attempted to gradually work my way down the case with the press and got the case stuck. Took the die to the local shop and he was able to get it out.

Returned home to try again with some more advice and same thing, way to much resistance. Tried multiple cases with same results. What I noticed this time was that the mouth of the neck was binding up in the neck sizing portion of the die and not compressing. That is where I am getting the resistance and most likely hung up the first stuck case. I measured the OD of the once fired brass and a properly sized case at the neck. The once fired OD being around .009 larger than the new brass. From the looks of the neck it didn’t seem likely there would be any way I was going to be able to size the neck without getting another one stuck or using waay to much force.

I wish I had measured the neck OD after fire forming and before annealing but did not. Also wish I hadn’t annealed all the cases before resizing. The once fired case still chambers in the gun after annealing with no noticeable resistance or forcing the bolt closed.

My question is: is it the properties of the ADG brass? Have heard that the cases are quite thick and can be a pain in the ass to work with.

Did our “annealing” process widen the neck even more and actually harden the brass making it less workable?

Or is the fire forming in the chamber of the gun making the neck so wide that it’s making it difficult to resize?
We intend to shoot the rest of loads in a few days and try to resize w/o annealing and see if it works any better.

Thanks for reading and any input would be appreciated.

Greg

 

[NevadaMike]

If you do not get an answer here I would email or call Unknown Munitions on Monday. You will definitely get an answer from them.

 

[amassi]

It likely isn't the neck as I've necked down thousands of cases more than .009.
Remove the neck expander and run a lubed case- if the resistance is the same you can check that off.
Is the expander the right size?

You may have too much wax buildup in the die now
Clean the dies and use less, much mess wax. I only wax ever 5th case normally depending on feel.

The die body may be reamed too short or too narrow, it's rare but it happens.
If you don't know what your doing, don't anneal.
Lastly the prc has a pretty common issue of overexpanding the web of the case if your rifle has a sloppy chamber towards the upper end of saami and your dies are on the lower end of spec it could cause this.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Gminobe]

It likely isn't the neck as I've necked down thousands of cases more than .009.
Remove the neck expander and run a lubed case- if the resistance is the same you can check that off.
Is the expander the right size?

You may have too much wax buildup in the die now
Clean the dies and use less, much mess wax. I only wax ever 5th case normally depending on feel.

The die body may be reamed too short or too narrow, it's rare but it happens.
If you don't know what your doing, don't anneal.
Lastly the prc has a pretty common issue of overexpanding the web of the case if your rifle has a sloppy chamber towards the upper end of saami and your dies are on the lower end of spec it could cause this.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Thanks Amassi,

I removed the expander ball and had the same results. Also tried various amounts of wax and cleaned the inside of die with qtip before each attempt. Pretty scary using less wax when I’ve already stuck a case but tried my best.

Felt like I had to make an attempt at annealing to take advantage of case life and consistent neck tension but will take that advice not to anneal unless I have the equipment to be consistent and accurate.

Thanks again

 

[amassi]

I'd order another die if they're available

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Gminobe]

I'd order another die if they're available

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Have one on order from midway. Same Redding die. Will report back results.

 

[Wrench]

Start at the start on this one. You're sticking cases. Cases can be formed from vastly different cases with relative ease when everything is correct.

I'd start with clean dies. Hit them with brake clean and blow them out.

Your wax is not working for you. You're either too light or too hea y.

Wipe a case with lanolin, one shot, pam, wd40...anything and try to size it. You should get increasing resistance through the stroke, and resistance for a second when you reverse direction...but that's it.

Once fired brass in a larger chamber can be a pita if you have a tight chamber. If you struggle, you may need to take a few thou from the top of the shellholder to make it work.

 

[Wrench]

Annealing will not cause you to stick the case. Friction does. You need a better friction modification process.

 

[sndmn11]

Wasn't there another thread last week about issues sizing brass with jerryrig annealing and the solution was to stop the annealing?

I vote to try un-annealednbrass. If you need to shoot loads first, maybe there is some virgin cases you can try annealing with your process and then sizing to see if that results in the same owie.

 

[Gminobe]

Annealing will not cause you to stick the case. Friction does. You need a better friction modification process.

Thanks for the input wrench. Intend to start at the beginning and deal with friction.

 

[Dos XX]

I prefer Royal Case & Die Lube over Imperial. That said, I have resized 1000's of cases with Imperial.

If you really dicked up the annealing, it could make the outside of the case "stickier". I am doubtful that it would be bad enough that the lube couldn't handle it. I'm not looking at it and I don't know how you annealed, though.

Do you have an unfired piece of brass? If not, pull the bullet out of one of your unfired rounds. Try and size one of these pieces and see what happens.

Measure the od of the neck on a fired case. Call Redding and tell them the od and what die you have. They have a great tech support team and they actually seem to care.

You might also measure the fired brass at the shoulder and at the. 200 line before you call Redding. This would let them determine if you have a chamber larger than their die was made for.

You need calipers or a mic to make these measurements. A caliper is probably good enough.

 

[Gminobe]

Wasn't there another thread last week about issues sizing brass with jerryrig annealing and the solution was to stop the annealing?

I vote to try un-annealednbrass. If you need to shoot loads first, maybe there is some virgin cases you can try annealing with your process and then sizing to see if that results in the same owie.

After we shoot some rounds we have loaded I’m going to go through process again w/o annealing and see if that makes the difference.

 

[ndayton]

Might be an issue with the Redding dies. This guy in the video is having the same issue.

 

[sndmn11]

After we shoot some rounds we have loaded I’m going to go through process again w/o annealing and see if that makes the difference.

Did you just load your virgin brass straight out of the box, and did you load all of the virgin brass?

 

[Gminobe]

Did you just load your virgin brass straight out of the box, and did you load all of the virgin brass?

The virgin brass was put through the sizing die before it was loaded. I have rounds to shoot still from the initial loading. I also still have new ADG brass that nothing has been done to. Unfired/new brass measured .290 OD of neck w/ calipers. Problem brass measured .294-.296 OD w/ calipers. Do not have micrometer.

 

[sndmn11]

The virgin brass was put through the sizing die before it was loaded. I have rounds to shoot still from the initial loading. I also still have new ADG brass that nothing has been done to. Unfired/new brass measured .290 OD of neck w/ calipers. Problem brass measured .294-.296 OD w/ calipers. Do not have micrometer.

I'd run 1 piece of untouched brass through that die, if it works then you know the die didn't get wonky after the first batch of sizing.

Beyond that, annealing is culprit.

 

[SDHNTR]

I'd run 1 piece of untouched brass through that die, if it works then you know the die didn't get wonky after the first batch of sizing.

Beyond that, annealing is culprit.

This. You should get like 8+ loads out of ADG easily. I don’t see much need for annealing. Especially if it’s causing problems. You could also try a neck size bushing die too.

 

[Wrench]

Video guy was also using wax.

 

[SDHNTR]

Video guy was also using wax.

FWIW, the only stuck case I’ve ever had was with Imperial Wax. I prefer rolling on a pad and lubing inside neck with a brush if using an expander. Which could be your problem too if you are only waxing the case exterior. In my experience Redding expanders are quite “grippy” and require copious lubrication.

 

[Wyomuleskinner]

it could be the die

another possibility is too much or not enough lube also make sure to lube inside the case neck

if you don't anneal properly your probably doing more harm than good. I don't know your method and I'm not saying your doing it wrong but I'd rather not anneal than wing it