6.5 PRC and 6.5 Creedmoor

[Maidenfan539]

What’s the velocity at 700 for them?

2066 with the PRC and 1957 with the 147.

 

[General RE LEE]

I had a 6.5 PRC but sold it. Great rifle but more than what’s needed for game where I hunt. The 6.5 Creedmoor has much better barrel life so I can do a lot more shooting in the off season.

 

[Maidenfan539]

None of those numbers mean anything in practical terms. Drop is easy to deal with. Energy is irrelevant. Where the rubber meets the road is wind drift. The 156 moving faster is always going to win in the wind and that is the why.

Any advantage you can get to nullify the wind is a positive.

Jeremy

I agree! Windage is always something a person needs to accurately read and appropriately measure for.

 

[BBob]

My son has a short barreled 6.5 creedmoor (22") at 2650 fps and I have a 6.5 prc (22") at 2854 fps. He is shooting the 147's and I am shooting the 156 eol's.

What’s the velocity at 700 for them?

For the above example JBM says:

6.5 CM & 6.5 PRC with an 1800 fps minimum velocity at range.

6.5 CM 1800 fps @ ~700yd, 10 mph wind at 700 yd 31". 700 yd drop 17.7 MOA (850 yd drop 23.9 MOA)

6.5 PRC 1800 fps @ ~850 yd, 10 mph wind at 850 yd 42.9" (700 yds 27.9"). 850 yd drop 20.2 MOA (700 yd drop 14.9 MOA).

 

[Packmansion]

I haven’t run all the numbers yet, but I like to keep my impacts above 2000 fps. Just the paranoid part of me that wants 99% plus odds of full upset lol.
I want to be able to keep the 156 bergers above that to 600. Probably very close with a cm.
Im in the process of building a new hunting rifle, have not fully decided between cm and prc yet. I had full intentions of building a 7prc before listening to the exo podcast with form, so Im sipping the kool-aid in small doses haha.
Also hard to find alot of the less common powders here in Canada, and I have a reasonable stock of H1000, which is better suited to the prc…Can always load it down to cm velocities haha

With a 20" creed youre good to 600 with 143s if you stock with 2000. The 156 burgers are not a super popular bullet and supply does not always keep up with demand. 140 eldm, 143 eldx and 147eldm are cheap and in stock everywhere.

 

[Packmansion]

None of those numbers mean anything in practical terms. Drop is easy to deal with. Energy is irrelevant. Where the rubber meets the road is wind drift. The 156 moving faster is always going to win in the wind and that is the why.

Any advantage you can get to nullify the wind is a positive.

Jeremy

In a 10mph wind at 600 yards it's a 1.7 inch difference. Considering a 6 inch gong at 600 yards is 1 moa... Is it better sure, if I were to place bets on someone with a cm or PRC 7.5 pounds rifles(all setup with scope etc.), shooting prone on uneven ground. The guy with the cm will hit it more for sure. There is a reason people in prs are using the lightest recoiling rifle that they can it works more better. Lighter recoiling rifles have higher hit rates.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

You would have a bullet moving faster than you need it to. What more do you need than 2700 fps out of a 20" barrel with 143s? Is 800 yards not enough?

That's exactly what I get with PRC and factory loads, 2750 actually. My shorty CM was averaging 2540 with factory loads. 200 fps extra is nice, taking it on a Nilgai hunt in the morning and planning to put something bonded through a shoulder.

 

[Packmansion]

Since you asked, I'll give some real-world data out of a 20" creedmoor and a couple 24" PRC's. I handload for accuracy. The 6.5 sta-ball or rl26 will get you lots of velocity, but I couldn't get the accuracy or the temp stability I was after in those powders for the creedmoor. H4350 fetched 2665, with 1/4 moa accuracy so that's what the 20" Creed burns. My son's have killed mule deer, elk, and black bears with that load (along with a few hundred rockchucks). 140 Berger vld is the bullet.
The PRC's my family owns launch a 156 Berger at 2950 ish with rl25. 1/4 to 1/2 inch accuracy depending on which rifle, with very low standard deviation. Those 2 rifles have combined for an impressive number of 1 shot kills on mule deer, elk, and black bears.
To me, the PRC and the Creed are in 2 different categories. A 140 gr bullet at 2665, or a 156 gr bullet at 2950? The only similarity is the bullet diameter. I will hunt with either, but if longish shots at mulies or elk are likely, I'm carrying the PRC.

H4350 is hard to compete with but I've switched to staball with very good results. It is more temp sensitive than h4350 but that's the compromise with ball powder. What is a longish shot for you? I'm not seeing a big improvement between the two 600 yards and in. Also comparing a 20" creed to 24" PRC is going to show more of a difference. A 20" PRC will also lose more speed per inch.

 

[bluetick78]

H4350 is hard to compete with but I've switched to staball with very good results. It is more temp sensitive than h4350 but that's the compromise with ball powder. What is a longish shot for you? I'm not seeing a big improvement between the two 600 yards and in. Also comparing a 20" creed to 24" PRC is going to show more of a difference. A 20" PRC will also lose more speed per inch.

Longish would be 450 plus. I feel that any comparison between the two calibers needs to be done with each rifle "properly equipped". Hornady didn't design the PRC to have a 20" barrel, it's meant for 24" tubes. The Creed is optimized for 20-22" tubes. I understand why hunters want to use short barrels with suppressors, but the downrange velocity and intended terminal performance suffers if you're not careful.

 

[Packmansion]

Longish would be 450 plus. I feel that any comparison between the two calibers needs to be done with each rifle "properly equipped". Hornady didn't design the PRC to have a 20" barrel, it's meant for 24" tubes. The Creed is optimized for 20-22" tubes. I understand why hunters want to use short barrels with suppressors, but the downrange velocity and intended terminal performance suffers if you're not careful.

Depending on the bullet all you need is 1800 fps that gets you into the next county with the ole man bun.

 

[drphodges]

What if I thought that all you need is the 6.5 Grendel?

That’s an opinion.

There are situations where the extra velocity makes a difference.

I do love my 6.5 Grendel in the AR-15 platform. Can’t beat the cartridge for an AR-15. Definitely better options with AR-10 platform or bolt rifles but heavier guns.

 

[Spiral Horn]

The OP asks a very good question. Does the 6.5PRC provide any “real-world, hunting advantage” over the 6.5CM at practical hunting ranges? Have to admit, I have a 6.5CM that’s throughly impressed everything I’ve ever pointed it at - yet, after the 6.5PRC came out I bought into all of the ballistics-hype and bought one as well. Do I regret the purchase? No. It is a fine shooting and well crafted rifle in its own right, but I regret the reason that I bought it. I bought it for hunting, but based the purchase on recommendations from long-range shooters, ballistics studies and folks who are into ringing steel at 1k. My hat is off to them and I respect their expertise, but that’s not how I’ll be using the rifle.

Like many on this forum I have more rifles than I can get around to using regularly. But my 6.5s were specifically purchased for hunting sheep, goats, chamois, ibex and other mountain game. My CM loves the 143gr ELD-X and 140gr NAB - both have proven very effective on game. In the mountains wind speed and direction can vary quite a bit between my shooting position and where the animal is standing. So, I like to keep my shots on game to 500 yards and under. I’ve taken a number of critters between ~300-500 yards with the 6.5CM - many were DRT and the others didn’t go far. So, for reasonable mountain hunting applications the 6.5CM has proven itself. Field-ready, with scope, covers, sling, and full magazine, my CM is still under 8lbs, very well balanced and handles like a dream.

For Tur or other East Asian hunting where 500 yard+ shots are not uncommon the 6.5PRC might be a slightly better choice as it will buck the wind slightly better and deliver a bit more energy at those longer ranges. Also, maybe it is because I was primarily a bowhunter for a big portion of my hunting career I’m a firm believer in relying on hunting skills to get within reasonable shooting range on game. Pushing the envelope via long-range shots are better fodder for bragging rights, but I feel increased confidence when stalking to within 300 yards or so, and there is a much lower chance of an errand shot.

I have a Yukon Sheep Hunt in August and am currently debating which rifle to bring = 6.5CM vs PRC. While I know my trusty CM will certainly get the job done, the PRC has never been on a sheep hunt so it is tempting me. Do I believe that the outcome of my sheep hunt can be negatively impacted by my choice of which rifle I take? Not likely due to the cartridge, but the PRC is 1/2 pound heavier. I’ll shoot both a bit between now and then (including mimicking field conditions) and will likely end up taking whichever I feel most confident in.

My 2 Cents

 

[Kaleb]

Longish would be 450 plus. I feel that any comparison between the two calibers needs to be done with each rifle "properly equipped". Hornady didn't design the PRC to have a 20" barrel, it's meant for 24" tubes. The Creed is optimized for 20-22" tubes. I understand why hunters want to use short barrels with suppressors, but the downrange velocity and intended terminal performance suffers if you're not careful.

That’s one opinion. Another opinion is the next fella might not want long barrels with either chambering. So to that person “properly equipped” could mean each rifle with a 18” barrel. While the creed might be more efficient and get better fuel mileage the Prc is going to be faster. How much faster? I don’t know because I don’t have either of them. Is it worth the difference? I can’t answer that either but to some it is and to others it isn’t. I do fall into the camp of 20” is as long as ill use and prefer 16-18”. I’m aware my velocity takes a hit but to (me) its a great trade off for the balance and handling I have with shorter barrels. I realize my 18” barrel makes some cringe just like a suppressed 22-24” makes me. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Speaks]

I was thinking last night about if I wanted a rifle with a bit more reach than my 6.5cm. If I use 1800 fps as my benchmark and the Hornady ballistics app I think it maybe extended me from 700 to 750 to move from CM to PRC, just for fun I checked my 270 and its right there with the PRC with likely similar recoil. I checked my 300wm and it really only gets me to 800. They seem like rather large trade offs for marginal gain in max effective range.

Stepping down to 6cm does not seem to cost me much of anything either. Something like 6UM might gain a fair amount but get into an ammo situation I dont care to be in. 6.5-300 might be interesting but I dont recall the numbers on it and its not in any of my apps.

In short I will stick with my 6.5cm, if I were really wanting something new Im not sure what I would get but likely not the 6.5PRC.

 

[Packmansion]

I was thinking last night about if I wanted a rifle with a bit more reach than my 6.5cm. If I use 1800 fps as my benchmark and the Hornady ballistics app I think it maybe extended me from 700 to 750 to move from CM to PRC, just for fun I checked my 270 and its right there with the PRC with likely similar recoil. I checked my 300wm and it really only gets me to 800. They seem like rather large trade offs for marginal gain in max effective range.

Stepping down to 6cm does not seem to cost me much of anything either. Something like 6UM might gain a fair amount but get into an ammo situation I dont care to be in. 6.5-300 might be interesting but I dont recall the numbers on it and its not in any of my apps.

In short I will stick with my 6.5cm, if I were really wanting something new Im not sure what I would get but likely not the 6.5PRC.

That guy with a 1 million dollar super car driving 10 mph in gridlock traffic isn't getting anywhere faster than you in your Honda civic with 250k miles....