6.5 creedmoor hunting ammo

[SneakyThunderCat]

Does anybody have any experience with 142 gr. Winchester long range Accubond rounds? From what I've read on the box, they will expand down to 1300 fps which is about 12-1300 yards if I'm not mistaken. This past year I went on an elk hunt out in Colorado with the Hornady 143 gr ELDX bullets which only expand out to about 600 yards. I never got a shot off at one due to not being able to get close enough. I am really considering using the Accubonds depending on performance. I am confident out to about 800 yards and wouldn't hesitate to take a shot at that distance if I knew I couldn't get any closer (depending on conditions of course). My gun shoots these very well. I am also open to any other ammo suggestions. Just wanting to maximize the effective range of my rifle.

 

[PathFinder]

The Accubond LR has not been well received. No personal experience with that bullet though. I'm not sure where you got the idea that the ELD X will only expand out to 600, but it's incorrect. They'll open up down around 1500 fps, maybe less. I shoot the 140 ELD M and it still fragments at 755 yards (~1750 fps) without hitting bone. My load has 7 kills (one bear, one bull elk, the rest deer) from 250-755 and all of the wound channels were nearly identical.

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[SneakyThunderCat]

Sorry, just from what i've read they will expand down to 1800 fps which is 600 ish yards. That's what i was going off of.

 

[Tld]

View attachment 83617
4 antelope and 1 bear with the 129 ablr from 6.5 Creedmoor at just over 2900fps. The bear was facing me with head down feeding at 137 yards. The bullet entered the base of the scull severing the spine and was found at the back of the stomach in a 62.2 grain perfect mushroom. Antelope broadside at 135 thru front shoulders with complete pass thru. Drt. Antelope at 670 and one at 835 broadside pass thru’s one drt and the 835 stood still for a moment then went down. Antelope at 720 quartering away, entered high just forward of the flank and exited the chest after taking out the heart. He went 15 feet and piled up. No major bloodshot on any and perfect performance at creedmoor speeds. The pic is from the bear. Hope this helps some

 

[FURMAN]

I personally do not believe the Creedmoor should even be being discussed for shots on elk at 800 yards. Will a well placed shot kill and elk? Sure but you owe it to the animal to use the best tool and the CM is not it. I know there will be some who disagree and that is fine but in my opinion this is a major factor in what gives "long range hunting" a bad name. You want to shoot elk at 800 plus yards? Get a 30.

 

[Formidilosus]

I personally do not believe the Creedmoor should even be being discussed for shots on elk at 800 yards. Will a well placed shot kill and elk? Sure but you owe it to the animal to use the best tool and the CM is not it. I know there will be some who disagree and that is fine but in my opinion this is a major factor in what gives "long range hunting" a bad name. You want to shoot elk at 800 plus yards? Get a 30.

What does a “30” give you that a 6.5 doesn’t?


I’ve killed elk with both 300 mags and 6.5 Creedmoors. Granted only to 732 yards, but there hasn’t been a huge difference between them. The bull I killed this year was at 666 yards with a 130gr Berger from a Creedmoor. The first shot was bedded, entered ribs, exited through the offside shoulder knuckle leaving a 1.5” exit hole. Not sure what a “30” would have gotten me.


I would saybhat if you if you want to shoot an elk at 800 plus yards you need to know the bullet is going to hit. The only to do that is to shoot from field positions a lot. That’s significantly easier with a Creedmoor than a 30 cal magnum. I don’t owrsonally know anyone that shoots enough magnum rounds to actually be proficient enough to be taking 800 yard shots on animals. The flip side is that everyone I personally know that is truly 80” yard capable shoots a ton of 223, 6mm/6.5mm rounds, and because of that generally choose to hunt with those rounds. I can shoot as many 30cal mag rounds as I want. There is no way that I’m consistently shooting 100-200 rounds a day with them. But I don’t blink at doing the same with a mild 6 or 6.5mm round.

750-800 yards is about where I’m comfortable with a Creedmoor just due to impact velocity and the resulting terminal ballistics. But if that bull had been at 800 instead of 666, the only thing that would have changed is that I would have dialed 5.5 mils instead of 4.1.

 

[FURMAN]

What does a “30” give you that a 6.5 doesn’t?


I’ve killed elk with both 300 mags and 6.5 Creedmoors. Granted only to 732 yards, but there hasn’t been a huge difference between them. The bull I killed this year was at 666 yards with a 130gr Berger from a Creedmoor. The first shot was bedded, entered ribs, exited through the offside shoulder knuckle leaving a 1.5” exit hole. Not sure what a “30” would have gotten me.



I would saybhat if you if you want to shoot an elk at 800 plus yards you need to know the bullet is going to hit. The only to do that is to shoot from field positions a lot. That’s significantly easier with a Creedmoor than a 30 cal magnum. I don’t owrsonally know anyone that shoots enough magnum rounds to actually be proficient enough to be taking 800 yard shots on animals. The flip side is that everyone I personally know that is truly 80” yard capable shoots a ton of 223, 6mm/6.5mm rounds, and because of that generally choose to hunt with those rounds. I can shoot as many 30cal mag rounds as I want. There is no way that I’m consistently shooting 100-200 rounds a day with them. But I don’t blink at doing the same with a mild 6 or 6.5mm round.

750-800 yards is about where I’m comfortable with a Creedmoor just due to impact velocity and the resulting terminal ballistics. But if that bull had been at 800 instead of 666, the only thing that would have changed is that I would have dialed 5.5 mils instead of 4.1.

We will have to agree to disagree. In most every case the game I have killed with 6.5s and 7s have run. The 215 berger has had very few runners. If you are not shooting enough to be proficient with any cartridge you should not be taking game with it. That does not mean that just because you can hit steal plates with your Creedmoor you are good to go on game. You need bullet SD and velocity. I do not have time to argue with you but bigger bullets flat kill better period. If I wasn't concerned with weight I would rather have a 338 for elk. So we are clear I have never and will never suggest a light for caliber bullet. I am a strong proponent of large for caliber. I have never understood shooting light bullets for big game. Varmints are a completely different story. If you are really going to argue that the Creedmoor can compete with a 300 launching a 200 plus bullet at faster speeds than the Creed than there is nothing I can do to help. It is this perpetuation that has made the Creedmoor the laughing stock of the shooting community. I have owned two. I loved both but 800 yards elk rifles they were not. The OP stated he passed shots because he doubted his equipment and I applaud him for it but he should have that same doubt with any bullet launched from CM speeds at those distances. I will state what I already stated. Any projectile piercing lungs is going to kill the animal but how far will it have run. Good luck with your selection.

 

[4ester]

Personally if you are looking to shoot long range I would stay away from factory ammunition all together and start reloading. It certainly has gotten better in certain brands as of late but I still don’t trust anyone else stuffing powder into my cases.

Shooting an animal at longer distances takes a lot of practice, knowledge of your equipment, knowledge of shooting conditions. Companies like Gunwerks have given people the idea they can just buy a long range rifle and start dropping critters at 1000 yards. I’ve seen people that think so first hand in the field and it’s a black eye to a sportsman. Now with enough time in the field it can be accomplished. I’m not saying that this is you..... just for those that think this way. The 6.5 is a great little round, but I still wouldn’t use it on elk past 5-600 yards.


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[Yotekiller]

If you are wanting to maximize your effective range with your riffle you need to start hand loading. In my opinion 800 yard shots with any factory ammo regardless of cartridge is just wrong. You are lacking speed with a creedmoor. You should be able gain some velocity with hand loads you can't get with factory ammo. By barely bumping the shoulder back on your brass you can get a tighter fit to your chamber that will help with accuracy. By experimenting with seating depth you can find the sweet spot your riffle likes. Load it yourself so you know every round is exactly the same.

I don't have any experience with the bullets you are asking about but I know 140 grain bergers have never failed me in a 6.5 and I have shot elk beyond 900 yards with them which is right at the lower impact velocity berger claims they will work. I am shooting them out of a larger cartridge so starting velocity is higher and I am assuming the bergers have a higher bc so they are retaining more of the velocity down range. That velocity helps with both terminal performance as well as poor wind calls. Shot placement is what matters. If you take out both lungs the animal is going down. One lung it is going to get back up and run off. A bigger bullet doesn't change that. Usually people claiming their equipment failed took a shot at a poor angle that did not get both lungs. I generally like to shoot when they are slightly quartering away impacting 1/3 of the way down from the top of the back. Usually both lungs are toast, top of the heart is gone, and hit the spine. Most of the animals drop in their tracks and never get up. I have never seen one get away.

 

[hwy1strat]

What does a “30” give you that a 6.5 doesn’t?

At 800 yards, a 300 gives you over 1000ft/lbs of energy more. Everything I have ever been taught is that you want a minimum of 1400 ft/lbs for an elk. Will a 6.5 creed still work, absolutely. However, I wouldn't do it. That bullet only has about 1000ft/lbs of energy at that distance.

Is the "rule of thumb" of 1400ft/lbs just made up nonsense? You have much more experience than me on this stuff. What is your energy cutoff? Or, is energy irrelevant?

 

[Formidilosus]

At 800 yards, a 300 gives you over 1000ft/lbs of energy more. Everything I have ever been taught is that you want a minimum of 1400 ft/lbs for an elk. Will a 6.5 creed still work, absolutely. However, I wouldn't do it. That bullet only has about 1000ft/lbs of energy at that distance.

Is the "rule of thumb" of 1400ft/lbs just made up nonsense? You have much more experience than me on this stuff. What is your energy cutoff? Or, is energy irrelevant?

Ft-lbs energy is a useless metric for determine “killing”. The depth of the wound, width of the wound, overall shape of the wound, and what organs are damaged are what determines “killing”.


The bigger a bullet is, the more tissue it “can” destroy. Doesn’t mean it will, but is possible. Case in point- “mountain goats are really tough”. “I need a 30cal magnum and a tough bullet”. The 30cal magnum part might have increaed the potential wound size, however the “tough bullet” decreased its actual size, I.E.- a 30 cal Barnes TSX has a significantly smaller wound channel than a 135gr Berger from a 6.5.... BUT both have plenty of penetration for a goat. In that instance, even though a “magnum” was used, it will consistently kill slower than the smaller 6.5... It’s all about the bullet.

Given adequate penetration, the wider a wound the more tissue it damages and the faster it kills. As long as the bullet had enough remaining velocity at impact, it will kill fine. With most loads, between 750 and 800 yards is where most LR bullets will drop below the required velocity in the Creedmoor.



Yes, a 215gr Berger 30cal can, and will kill faster all else being equal to a 130gr Berger. The potential wound channel can be bigger due to more bullet and fragments. However, the 130gr kills well and killing effectivley is so much more than what cartridge is used. To consistently, and repeatedly kill is a combination of shot placement, terminal ballistics, and external ballistics. Those all have so much more to do than how “big” a round is. Once you have adequate terminal ballistics than really it’s about maximizing your hit rate. THAT is where the smaller cartridges come into their own.

 

[hwy1strat]

1,000 ft lbs more? What inputs are you using to compare the two? Kinetic energy doesn’t kill animals; back calculate kinetic energy for a 30-06 and look at the corresponding range for +/- 1,500 ft lbs. Now think of the time that 1,500 ft lbs started to become a rule of thumb.

I am using my 6.5 creedmoor that shoots the 143gr ELDX at 2716fps compared to my 300winmag with 215gr Berger's at 2880fps. Energy for the 6.5 is 1081 and for the 300 is 2046ft/lbs according to my ballistic app.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Big ass wound channels kill animals. This becomes very apparent if you watch a big 300-grain Bergers hit elk.

I'm not going to argue how well a 6.5 CM will kill elk because I have never seen one in action and I like to speak from first-hand knowledge.

To the OPs question. I have seen the 210 and 168-grain LRABs in action and they were deadly on elk at around 600 yards.

 

[Jon Boy]

What does a “30” give you that a 6.5 doesn’t?

.

You have got to be kidding me.

 

[PredatorX]

I just watched a YouTube video of a guy kill a black bear with a blow gun. I don't think you can doubt a 6.5 cm killing at the minimum required velocity for expansion.

I just wonder how forgiving it is on less then ideal shots. However, 1000 ft lbs seems like a lot to me. Maybe it truly is all about the bullet (bergers). I'm starting to buy into this a little bit. Especially these grenading type bullets.



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[Evergreen]

Does anybody have any experience with 142 gr. Winchester long range Accubond rounds? From what I've read on the box, they will expand down to 1300 fps which is about 12-1300 yards if I'm not mistaken. This past year I went on an elk hunt out in Colorado with the Hornady 143 gr ELDX bullets which only expand out to about 600 yards. I never got a shot off at one due to not being able to get close enough. I am really considering using the Accubonds depending on performance. I am confident out to about 800 yards and wouldn't hesitate to take a shot at that distance if I knew I couldn't get any closer (depending on conditions of course). My gun shoots these very well. I am also open to any other ammo suggestions. Just wanting to maximize the effective range of my rifle.

I used the 143 edlx last year on whitetails in Idaho and I can't really argue the final result I did not like the performance of the bullet. First deer at 120 yards was a pass through. Pencil entrance with 1" exit, dead within 75 yards. Second deer was 403 yards high shoulder dropped right there however the entrance was a pencil hole no exit with about 42 grains of jacket found inside. Again not arguing with final result but not what I expected for expansion and weight retention. I switched to the 142 LRAB in winchester ammo and totally different results. First deer at 530 yards broke both shoulders with a pass through dead in 20 yards. Second deer at 350 yards pass through dead in 40 yards. Entrance was about an inch on both and exits were 2-3 inches on both. Hope that helps!!

 

[the0thermrt]

try the 147 gr DRT terminal shock in 6.5 CM. Most guys are using the 55 gr 223 TS on 300 lbs whitetail.

 

[Dusty2426]

I personally do not believe the Creedmoor should even be being discussed for shots on elk at 800 yards. Will a well placed shot kill and elk? Sure but you owe it to the animal to use the best tool and the CM is not it. I know there will be some who disagree and that is fine but in my opinion this is a major factor in what gives "long range hunting" a bad name. You want to shoot elk at 800 plus yards? Get a 30.

Shot a cow elk at 740 with 6.5 Creedmoor high shoulder shot 140 Accubond complete pass thru. Sure she ran about 25 yards but stopped did the front to back wobble then all four legs in the air. Creedmoor carries plenty of energy to make ethical kills to 800. Not. 1000 yard round but elk down to 800 all day everyday in the vitals.

 

[Dusty2426]

Here is a hard pill for some to swallow but the Biggest issue is don’t shoot target bullets at big game animals. Use a bullet designed for hunting not a bullet designed for targets that they accidentally discovered performed decent at hunting.

 

[Dusty2426]

At 800 yards, a 300 gives you over 1000ft/lbs of energy more. Everything I have ever been taught is that you want a minimum of 1400 ft/lbs for an elk. Will a 6.5 creed still work, absolutely. However, I wouldn't do it. That bullet only has about 1000ft/lbs of energy at that distance.

Is the "rule of thumb" of 1400ft/lbs just made up nonsense? You have much more experience than me on this stuff. What is your energy cutoff? Or, is energy irrelevant?

KILLING POWER

Good read on energy. 800 lbs for elk 650 for whitetail is what I determine my maximum distances. And it has served me well.