6.5 Creedmoor: Heavy and Slow or Light and Fast

[Bluumoon]

The 130s are serving me well. 10 shot groups under an inch and baseball size wound channels completely through elk at 1700fps.

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

The 130s are serving me well. 10 shot groups under an inch and baseball size wound channels completely through elk at 1700fps.

What powder? H4350

 

[Bluumoon]

What powder? H4350

Correct, fairly mild load.

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

Correct, fairly mild load.

I was hoping you would say that

 

[Ajsomp]

For those of you who like the 147 ELDm, I'll add a bit of info from last year, in a PRC so just a tad faster.

My BIL shot a NM cow elk at 315 yards tight to the shoulder with a slight quartering away angle. The ole girl ran about 20 yards and dropped. We recovered the bullet under the skin on the off side shoulder, it weighed 108 grains.

I do like the 147 and the results I’ve personally seen. Average traveled distance was about 10 feet for white tail and mule deer. Didn’t get an elk tag this year but hoping to hit rifle elk next year. Mine is out of a PRC as well

 

[Jon Boy]

I said screw it with the mental gymnastics with 6mm cm and decided to just ordered some lapua brass and 130 tmks for my already chopped 6.5 cm. Hoping to get 2800 out of a 20 in tikka. Ballistics are identical and i can’t imagine recoil is much more. According to a recoil calculate its 2 ft lbs more.

 

[Natebonebusta]

I said screw it with the mental gymnastics with 6mm cm and decided to just ordered some lapua brass and 130 tmks for my already chopped 6.5 cm. Hoping to get 2800 out of a 20 in tikka. Ballistics are identical and i can’t imagine recoil is much more. According to a recoil calculate its 2 ft lbs more.

A good dose of h4350 ought to produce that. 6.5 staball will certainly achieve it. I get 2715fps out of 18” barrel with H4350 and the 130 TMK.

 

[HuntHarder]

I said screw it with the mental gymnastics with 6mm cm and decided to just ordered some lapua brass and 130 tmks for my already chopped 6.5 cm. Hoping to get 2800 out of a 20 in tikka. Ballistics are identical and i can’t imagine recoil is much more. According to a recoil calculate its 2 ft lbs more.

My C6 20" 6.5 cm with suppressor on it gets 2895 with 42gr of H4350. I tried the 130 tmk, eld-m and Vld-h. My gun shot the best with VLD-h followed by TMK.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I haven't done it, but as long as you're over the minimum expansion velocity (1800 fps for these options), it should theoretically perform well. 73 ELD-M's performed great at 1900 fps this fall.

OP's question is very dependent on the application. Long range or mid range? Short barrel or long barrel?

If it's mid range, I would just decide if I preferred ELD-M or TMK performance and go from there. For a low recoil load for young shooters, I'm actually planning on loading a 103 gr TMK for sub 400 yard hunting.

@slingin_sticks

 

[Jordan Smith]

The wind with a 130 at 2850 VS a 140 at 2730 VS a 147 at 2630 are all within 0.1mil with same wind speed. I cannot shot the difference of 0.36moa from field situations.

At what distance and in what environmental conditions? The relative wind drift between those three bullets changes with distance, with the 147 gaining advantage as distance increases.

 

[Jordan Smith]

One other benefit to the slow, heavy bullets, such as the 147 ELD-M in the 6.5 CM, is the consistent terminal performance. Most C&C bullets tend to behave pretty predictably when impacting at <2700 fps, and the high BC of the 147 means that it loses speed at a slower rate, so the impact speed is more consistent over a given range of distances, as well.

A warp speed launch with fast bleed off is a nightmare for bullet designers trying to achieve consistent and predictable terminal performance.

 

[khuber84]

At what distance and in what environmental conditions? The relative wind drift between those three bullets changes with distance, with the 147 gaining advantage as distance increases.

Typical 4-5k da 600y. People shouldn't be shooting at game further than that distance unless they are extremely proficient and put thousand + rounds down range a year. Inside 600y the slow 147 is of no advantage. A 140 eldm or 140 hyb is a much better bullet for a small case like the creed, plus to ensure perfect bullet performance, set the lower velocity threshold to 2000. The BC of everyone I know who's run 147s in competition is a g7 of around 325+-, not the ridiculous overinflated Hornady #s. Look on applied ballistics they have a ton of custom drag models of the 147, 5% of em have a g7 above 330.

 

[aschuler]

110 hammer hunters at 3250fps is a whole lot of fun and has pretty good ballistics for 5-600yd shots.

 

[Castle Rock]

So is a 100 grain ballistic tip

 

[Mvaughan]

Not sure what range you’re wanting to shoot or animal you’d be shooting at, but my go to at 143 eldx.

A couple of aoudad from 574yds and 521 yds respectively….each were 1 shot kills.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Typical 4-5k da 600y. People shouldn't be shooting at game further than that distance unless they are extremely proficient and put thousand + rounds down range a year. Inside 600y the slow 147 is of no advantage. A 140 eldm or 140 hyb is a much better bullet for a small case like the creed, plus to ensure perfect bullet performance, set the lower velocity threshold to 2000. The BC of everyone I know who's run 147s in competition is a g7 of around 325+-, not the ridiculous overinflated Hornady #s. Look on applied ballistics they have a ton of custom drag models of the 147, 5% of em have a g7 above 330.

Thanks. I'll disagree that the 147 provides no advantage over the 140 ELD-M or 140 Hybrid within 600 yards. Winds are seldom constant, and any advantage to decrease the variability in wind drift is meaningful, at least to me.

Your point about 2000 fps minimum impact speed threshold is not relevant to the fact that more consistent impact speeds yield more consistent terminal performance.

I've run the 147 in competition some, and a bunch more in casual shooting, practice, and hunting, and the published G7 has worked well for me out to 1600+ meters.

Just saying.

 

[khuber84]

Thanks. I'll disagree that the 147 provides no advantage over the 140 ELD-M or 140 Hybrid within 600 yards. Winds are seldom constant, and any advantage to decrease the variability in wind drift is meaningful, at least to me.

Your point about 2000 fps minimum impact speed threshold is not relevant to the fact that more consistent impact speeds yield more consistent terminal performance.

I've run the 147 in competition some, and a bunch more in casual shooting, practice, and hunting, and the published G7 has worked well for me out to 1600+ meters.

Just saying.

Eldms kill well, I'll give em that. But the MACH2.5 G7 everyone loves to suckle on, only works to about 2800 fps, but short barrel 65cm won't even get that bullet over 2750, so you're starting with their mach2 value, and once you get to 2200fps, the Mach 1.5 value. These values are not great, at all.

The Mach2 value is 332 g7, the Mach 1.5 is 321, so if you wanna run this all the way out to 1800fps, the bullet will be operating at mid pint, and 325+- which for a bullet that has more bearing surface than a 156 Berger, isnt great. Ironically 325 g7 has lined up very well for me out to 1300y with creed and prc cases. The 140eldm has been extremely consistent at 311-314g7 for me, and I can drive it 100+fps over the eldm. BC doesn't do anything inside 400y when light bullet is going 200+ faster.

Keep buying and shooting 147eldm, you lien them, that's your choice. But it's not the best bullet here.

 

[Castle Rock]

I've run the 147 in competition some, and a bunch more in casual shooting, practice, and hunting, and the published G7 has worked well for me out to 1600+ meters.

Just saying.

I agree with this part as I have used the 147 extensively out to a mile in CM and PRC and the numbers work but I definitely prefer a lighter and faster bullet for hunting.

Better mid range trajectory with the lighter bullets means a lot to me because most hunting I do is instinctive shots out to about 300m

 

[Jordan Smith]

Eldms kill well, I'll give em that. But the MACH2.5 G7 everyone loves to suckle on, only works to about 2800 fps, but short barrel 65cm won't even get that bullet over 2750, so you're starting with their mach2 value, and once you get to 2200fps, the Mach 1.5 value. These values are not great, at all.

The Mach2 value is 332 g7, the Mach 1.5 is 321, so if you wanna run this all the way out to 1800fps, the bullet will be operating at mid pint, and 325+- which for a bullet that has more bearing surface than a 156 Berger, isnt great. Ironically 325 g7 has lined up very well for me out to 1300y with creed and prc cases. The 140eldm has been extremely consistent at 311-314g7 for me, and I can drive it 100+fps over the eldm. BC doesn't do anything inside 400y when light bullet is going 200+ faster.

Keep buying and shooting 147eldm, you lien them, that's your choice. But it's not the best bullet here.

In terms of the "best bullet here," I can agree to disagree, and I'll afford you the same luxury of continuing to buy and shoot your bullet of choice. Leaves more 147s for me.

 

[06 SB]

I am going to try both. I have used the 142 SMK and Berger 140HT and they have been great but I like tinkering. I have some 147 ELDMs and 135 ATips to try soon.