6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

[amassi]

Has anyone here played around with cutting edge in the 6.5? Something like the Rifle Maximus or the Lazer? With the lower weights, probably running it faster? In an ideal world I'd run copper, but not if it's compromising performance.

.264/6.5mm 125gr Rifle Maximus - 50ct

.264/6.5mm 125gr solid copper, lead-free hunting bullet. This truly unique line of bullets combines high BC and massive terminal performance for ultimate take-down power. After 4-6” of penetration, 4-8 blades break off and create one large, massive wound channel.

cuttingedgebullets.com

@Formidilosus - Do any of your bullet recommendations change for PRC velocities (e.g. a 140 @ ~2900 fps MV) where shorter range shots happen too? Two of my elk were shot at sub 50 yards so something I'm aware of.

I have a 26" bbl creed that probably won't get hunted much as it's a tank, but am putting together a new 20" barrel PRC. Have plenty of 140 Berger Hybrids on hand, but need to decide what I'd like to hunt with because I just don't get the number of animals on the ground with a rifle to go from personal experience.

Also not a lot of Berger 156 EOL posts here which is what I was leaning towards.

I've shot a half dozen deer and 3 bears with the 125 lazer out of a prc and cm. They work ok, about like any other mono. The lazers do that damage a bit further than others due to a nice bc for a mono.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, seems like most of your kills are a bit longer this year, with impacts down to 1600 fps. Are the results changing your opinion on the 1800 minimum velocity for acceptable results?

They’re not longer except a couple with the 223’s, but no. Best bullet performance is attained with ELD-X/ELD-M and TMK’s above 1,800fps- that is rapid and significant upset/fragmentation with acceptable penetration. Just like with everything else- on demand shooting performance, ability to call wind, spot your own impacts, rapidly make adjustments and follow up shots, ability to read animal reactions, tracking ability and physical ability to follow a wounded animal, etc. all come into play to to drastically shorten or lengthen the range someone has a high percentage change of a successful outcome.

 

[Formidilosus]

Are you researching minimum velocity expansion threshold?

Yes. Actually for what most would consider “good” performance, 1,800’ish FPS is the limit.

Below that, some will open almost normally, and some just a bit as you can see on that last one, then tumble and fragment the jacket. Some will just tumble. All three ways create acceptable permanent crush cavities, but no secondary wound effects without fragmentation.

 

[Mike Islander]

First buck with my 6.5 Fieldcraft. 147 ELD-M. 210 pounds, which is huge for our coastal Southern forests. Planted peanuts this year, and all the deer benefited. I scouted/watched this buck all year, and my hunt lasted about 5 minutes. Nicknamed him Lobster because of his claw shaped antlers. Good to get him out of the gene pool. Killed what was probably a related buck in 2019 with similar antler shape. These deer live on a huge island, so not as much outside DNA as on the mainland.

220 yards. No exit wound. Literally dropped, as would be expected with this shot placement. Not obvious from the photo, but really slammed the spine in the neck. He was head down eating peanuts when I pulled the trigger. I was using a tripod at ground level.




My similar 2019 buck.

 

[NateTP38]

@Formidilosus - Out of the 143 ELD-X, 140 ELDM and 147 ELDM, which tends to get the most penetration at 6.5 CM velocities?

I'm planning a bear hunt where an exit is preferred. It is over bait so shots will be <50 yards, in case that impacts the answer.

Are there other bullets I should be considering for this application?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus - Out of the 143 ELD-X, 140 ELDM and 147 ELDM, which tends to get the most penetration at 6.5 CM velocities?

I'm planning a bear hunt where an exit is preferred. It is over bait so shots will be <50 yards, in case that impacts the answer.

Are there other bullets I should be considering for this application?

Those are all about the same, with the 143gr ELD-X and 147gr ELD-M giving slightly more exits. I prefer the 130gr TMK, and if you want exits while still creating very good wounds, the 130gr Berger Hybrid OTM AR bullet does that.

 

[livingandlearning]

Those are all about the same, with the 143gr ELD-X and 147gr ELD-M giving slightly more exits. I prefer the 130gr TMK, and if you want exits while still creating very good wounds, the 130gr Berger Hybrid OTM AR bullet does that.

Form,

Are there any other factory ammo choices for the 130 tmk besides The browning long range pro? That seems to be the only one I can find and I haven’t found it in stock anywhere.

 

[WeiserBucks]

@Formidilosus, any opinion on Lapua Scenars? I've always used Berger but these days the Scenar's have much better availability.

 

[ElPollo]

@Formidilosus, any opinion on Lapua Scenars? I've always used Berger but these days the Scenar's have much better availability.

I covered my experience with them in post 205 of this thread and Form responded with his views in the next post.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I covered my experience with them in post 204 of this thread and Form responded with his views in the next post.

Thanks, I haven't read the whole thread.

 

[ElPollo]

Thanks, I haven't read the whole thread.

I edited that while you were responding. It was 205 and 206. The scenars are slower to upset than the ELDM/X, TMK, and Bergers. I used them for three deer this year, all at less than 120 yards. I will be switching to the 130 ELDM or TMK.

 

[JGRaider]

I covered my experience with them in post 205 of this thread and Form responded with his views in the next post.

I've killed a slew of feral hogs with the 147, 143, and 139 scenar. IME, the scenar is just as potent as a killer, and holds together better than the ELDM;s at closer range. Most of the exits I've gotten are quarter sized, and I've intentionally shot through the shoulders, neck, behind the ears, and normal behind the shoulder POI's. IMO it has not peer as a hunting bullet in the 6.5 when you're just as likely to take a 50 yard shot as you are a 400 yard shot. They are superbly accurate as well, and very easy to load with.

 

[ElPollo]

I've killed a slew of feral hogs with the 147, 143, and 139 scenar. IME, the scenar is just as potent as a killer, and holds together better than the ELDM;s at closer range. Most of the exits I've gotten are quarter sized, and I've intentionally shot through the shoulders, neck, behind the ears, and normal behind the shoulder POI's. IMO it has not peer as a hunting bullet in the 6.5 when you're just as likely to take a 50 yard shot as you are a 400 yard shot. They are superbly accurate as well, and very easy to load with.

My experience with the Scenar is with the 136 gr Scenar-L in 6.5. I was using a 16.5” barreled Creedmoor with factory loads that were not particularly fast (2450 fps mv). Impact speed was 2400-2360. My experience with them is also limited to three wound cavities on whitetail does. Two were broadside and one was slightly quartering too. What I saw in my limited sample size was that the wound cavities that had a longer “neck” than I would like. Scenars upset like a Berger through tumbling and fragmenting. The the two broadside shots did not start to significantly upset until about half way through the animal. On the quartering to shot, the bullet entered in front of the right shoulder and passed over the top of the heart, but did not start to significantly upset until it reached the diaphragm, rumen, and liver. I think the Scenars will kill, but aren’t likely to create the size of wound channels that the ELDM/X and TMK would. Smaller wound channels generally equal less damage and longer tracking. But like I said, all of this reflect only on the bullet I used, the speed I used them at, and the limited number of shots I took. Your mileage may vary and they may be exactly what you are looking for in bullet performance.

 

[prm]

Data point of one, but the mule deer buck I shot at about 70 yds with a 139 Scenar (2770 mv) resulted in the bullet not opening by the entrance of the first (near) lung, but opened by the second. A couple inch exit. Deer ran about 50 yards.

 

[Brendan]

Ok, ordered a bunch of 147 ELD-M for my Creed and PRC to play around with. Between that and a stash of 140 Berger Hybrid, have two rifles to do load dev for now, guess I should get to it and get out and do some shooting!

 

[Formidilosus]

Form,

Are there any other factory ammo choices for the 130 tmk besides The browning long range pro? That seems to be the only one I can find and I haven’t found it in stock anywhere.

Not that I’m aware from major brands.

@Formidilosus, any opinion on Lapua Scenars? I've always used Berger but these days the Scenar's have much better availability.

I have seen dozens killed with Scenars, lots in testing and while they work ok (about like older standard matchkings with small nose openings), are in no way my preference. They generally travel 4-8” before tumbling and fragmenting or sometimes “expanding” as one would expect. In either case they create measurably smaller wounds than other match bullets, are generally variable in performance and sometimes feature almost zero bullet upset… sometimes not.

 

[JGRaider]

This should provide all the proof a guy needs about the killing efficiency of a scenar.......

Deceased via Scenar bullet pix please..

Tons of white, long winter and the Scenars that Scenar turned me onto are perking well in my lil 300 WSM. So, please post up pics of your victums via flight Scenar and help me relax a bit during this long butt winter. Gracias Perro

www.24hourcampfire.com

 

[Formidilosus]

330 yards, 130gr TMK at 2,400fps impact, 30’ish yards traveled-


Entrance-



Onside lung-




Offside lung-




Exit-

 

[Formidilosus]

369 yards, 143gr ELD-X, 2,140fps impact-

High lung, just under spine-

Exit-

 

[Formidilosus]

Elk, 6.5cm 517 yards, 143gr ELD-X, 1,980fps impact.

Entrance through back edge of shoulder (scapula)-


Entrance in ribs, under scapula-




Exit through “shoulder” (scapula)-



Exit through ribs-



Lungs-