40 cal round

[jeremiahcarson]

What bullet would/do you carry with a 40 cal to protect against bear, lions, 2 legged varmints? I've read several places that you want something that shoots fast to penetrate thick bear fur/skin. Thanks!

 

[PNWTO]

Lehigh Penetrator, hands down. Although in the lower 48 any reputable bonded JHP will be fine.

 

[RallySquirrel]

You might take a listen to this podcast:

Grizzly Bear Survival and Defense Tactics — Hunt Backcountry Podcast Episode 121 – Exo Mountain Gear

Interesting to say the least. One take away for me was which rounds had the best penetration. I am not sure you would want the same amount of penetration for 2 legged as 4, but it would matter what 4 legged creature you are defending yourself against.

 

[go4thegusto]

Double tap and Underwood have some good heavy loads.

 

[TauPhi111]

Double tap and Underwood have some good heavy loads.

I agree here that you don't want fast (and light), you want heavy (fast is also good when it's heavy). Whatever you carry for 4 legged predators is going to kill 2 legged predators. Carry some hard casts from underwood, buffola bore, or double tap.

 

[FLAK]

Check out Buffalo Bore's Outdoorsman load.

 

[FLAK]

You might take a listen to this podcast:

Grizzly Bear Survival and Defense Tactics — Hunt Backcountry Podcast Episode 121 – Exo Mountain Gear

Interesting to say the least. One take away for me was which rounds had the best penetration. I am not sure you would want the same amount of penetration for 2 legged as 4, but it would matter what 4 legged creature you are defending yourself against.

I listened to as much as I could. These guys sound like they're full of crap, not to mention they sound like a NPR episode.
I'll take my Big, Fat, slow moving bullet from my .45 Super over a 9mm any day.

 

[brandent111]

10mm all day

 

[Scoony]

9mm Hard cast lead has been proven to stop a charging bear. I actually enjoyed that podcast and found it very informative.

 

[KSP277]

10mm all day

+1 on that

 

[Beendare]

I agree with the few guys above and think the heavy hardcast and penetrator bullets are going to be a game changer with these bears. A bullet that doesn't stop until it disables CNS or breaks something.

This is NOT the bullet you want with soft human defense loads...there you want controlled penetration. There is a lot of info on this in the FBI test data.

 

[brandent111]

Record grizzly have also been killed with 22LR. Doesn’t make it ideal or even close to ideal to those recommending 9mm IMO

Edit- If I carried a 9mm with heavy cast 147's, I wouldn't feel under gunned necessarily, assuming statistics of even needing it were on my side.

 

[RallySquirrel]

The reason I reference the podcast was because the guys who do the bear defense training have taken the time time to compare ballistics on a bunch of bullets that aren't necessarily common (specifically the hardcast variety) and calibers that the average guy might not have access too. The OP asked what kind of bullet to protect against 2 and 4 legged creatures. Yes, I'm sure a hardcast bullet is going to stop anyone standing upright. However, if you are going lob your slower than the speed of sound .45 rounds at a grizzly, you might want to knee cap you buddy first. It may be the only way you get away clean.

 

[jhm2023]

I second the Lehigh xtreme penetrator. I personally like a little bit of trade off between deep penetration and some good energy transfer, and the XP gives both. The more common projectiles for bear defense are typically hard cast or something similar, but I got to thinking I would want more energy transfer than what a hard cast offers. So I developed a handload with some 300gr. swift a-frames, and a month later killed 2 grizz at 10 yards. Take that with a grain of salt though because I was pushing them nearly 1,600 fps. This did open my eyes to trading a little penetration for some more energy transfer though. I switched to the Lehigh XP because swift doesn't make a-frames suitable for the 460 Rowland which I carry now. Bear fur/hide isn't terribly think or hard to penetrate. It's the bone, large muscle, and bad demeanor you have to deal with. As far as 2 legged critters, I wouldn't worry about over penetration while I'm in the outdoors due to lack of crowds and residential developments.

 

[TexasCub]

I’d trust a 40 with the right bullets in a reliable platform without concern. Black bears just aren’t that hard to kill and they’re not that big and that’s coming from a guy that’s killed a dozen of them and witnessed another dozen + taken at close range. Here’s a video for you of a guy killing a 6ftr at point blank with a 9 mm. The most important part of whatever you use is that you hit where your aiming. Trying to hit an attacking mt lion would probably be as challenging as it gets, your reaction time and aim is gonna get tested, especially if it’s wrapped up on you and your trying to dig your pistol out of a holster.

eric kinseys bear kill - YouTube

 

[jeffpg]

You might take a listen to this podcast:

Grizzly Bear Survival and Defense Tactics — Hunt Backcountry Podcast Episode 121 – Exo Mountain Gear

Interesting to say the least. One take away for me was which rounds had the best penetration. I am not sure you would want the same amount of penetration for 2 legged as 4, but it would matter what 4 legged creature you are defending yourself against.

I listened to this a couple days ago while driving home from a out of state trip. Having hunted for elk in grizzly country in the past, as I also will this fall, I tend to gather as much information on the subject as I can. Based on my years of hunting with handguns and taking all sizes of game from squirrels to moose with them, in addition to simply studying and testing various loads and bullets, I have to say that the information in the podcast is spot on. Many of the things that Chris Forrest said during the talk convinced me that he had done his research and testing because they accurately mirrored my results. I actually listened very carefully and found nothing to criticize about the podcast.

For the OP and the question he asked: A ideal grizzly round requires a fast moving hard cast bullet, the heavier the better. This is best served from a 10mm or 460 Rowland, utilizing a 6" barrel for better velocity. I personally carry a Glock 40MOS stoked with Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman ammo. These tough bullets are not the perfect ones for a much more frail cat or human for instance, but will certainly work and are the best all around choice when big bear encounters are a possibility. If you are locked into using a 40 cal, you will want to find or load a hard cast bullet with maximum velocity. Buffalo Bore does offer a 200 gr load that's leaving the muzzle at 1000 fps which isn't too shabby, but I did notice that they also mention that it is good black bear defense, with no mention of the larger bears...

The very best shot on any bear that is a threat to you would be a bullet into the brain, but based on testimony from survivors of grizzly attacks, you will likely be fortunate to even have enough warning time to have your weapon in hand, much less be able to perform a head shot. These things usually happen very fast and unpredictably, therefore total and constant awareness while in known griz country is your first line of defense.

 

[huntstrong2850]

The very best shot on any bear that is a threat to you would be a bullet into the brain, but based on testimony from survivors of grizzly attacks, you will likely be fortunate to even have enough warning time to have your weapon in hand, much less be able to perform a head shot. These things usually happen very fast and unpredictably, therefore total and constant awareness while in known griz country is your first line of defense.[/QUOTE]

This right here..... because 75% won’t ever hit the bear much less in the head when charging.

 

[5MilesBack]

So I developed a handload with some 300gr. swift a-frames, and a month later killed 2 grizz at 10 yards. Take that with a grain of salt though because I was pushing them nearly 1,600 fps. This did open my eyes to trading a little penetration for some more energy transfer though.

With the Swift A-frames you're not giving up much on penetration. They are a great penetration bullet.

 

[Charon]

.44mag is my ideal defense against bear.