360 grain arrow with grim reaper mechanical

[Bump79]

That has to be one of the worst Fixed blade BH designs I've ever seenView attachment 729418

Depends on the goal. It's not the ideal penetrator at all but surely better than a mechanical. For flight, it's pretty incredible. Durability, meh it's not the best but it is all quality hardened steel & made in US. Blade retention and thickness really is good - but not much material there and there's some weak points. But I'd trust it over most all mechs. Maybe not Sevr.

It's really what you're trying to do with it. I'm not sure what his goal is - likely mule deer and antelope based on my best guess. For example if I was hunting antelope with the OP's light arrow, my suggestion was to move away from the mechanical and this would have as good of flight as a fixed can offer but better penetration.

Outside of that, I'd probably just add 50 grains to the arrow and use a more durable arrow/broadhead combo.

 

[Fetty Wapiti]

At that point it is a dart... not an arrow lol

 

[Zac]

DOOM Broadhead | arrowpoints

Introducing the DOOM broadhead! A fixed 4-blade design offers 1"+ of deadly cutting diameter. Blades can be oriented left or right to match the rotation of your arrow vanes for added wound channel performance. The DOOM stainless steel ferrule is tipped with a bone-splitting chisel point...

www.smithbrosprecision.com

This is probably similar to the B3. These are going to fly well, and will probably be much sharper than something like the TOTA.

 

[Kularrow]

DOOM Broadhead | arrowpoints

Introducing the DOOM broadhead! A fixed 4-blade design offers 1"+ of deadly cutting diameter. Blades can be oriented left or right to match the rotation of your arrow vanes for added wound channel performance. The DOOM stainless steel ferrule is tipped with a bone-splitting chisel point...

www.smithbrosprecision.com

This is probably similar to the B3. These are going to fly well, and will probably be much sharper than something like the TOTA.

These look nasty.

 

[Zac]

I shot a big bodied mule deer with a 380 grain arrow traveling over 300 fps with a rear deploying two blade. The deer ran off with the shaft and I never saw it again. High angle shot so I had no blood either. You are literally using the worst broadhead designed for that build. With a rear deployer, or a fixed blade you should at least get blood on the ground. However you are very unlikely to get blood on the ground or a pass through. I really don't know why anyone shoots over the top deployers at all. The only advantages I can see are the designs like the Schwacker that deploys virgin blades inside the cavity. Archaic design in my opinion.

 

[180ls1]

Killed a bull @ 54 and several other animals with a similar setup. I am sure it'll work just fine. Just dont run one if the big heads.

 

[dtrkyman]

First deer I ever killed with a mech head was with a 366 grain arrow 70lbs, 2 inch 4 blade rocket 17 yards 250ish lb whitetail buck, 10 ringed him and I swear the arrow bounced off

Prior to that my arrows always passed through so fast I wasn't even sure about hits? Fortunately the arrow did not bounce off but did not even punch through the off side and just backed out quickly, a long wait later I found the deer piled up less than 100 yds away, but went back to a fixed head immediately!

I suppose I would hunt deer sized critters with a light arrow and mech head but I would keep the cut modest. The grim reaper 1 3/8" head penetrates really well.

 

[Zac]

I just don’t understand why over the toppers exist. We know that they take exponentially more energy to open, and give horrible entrance wounds. They are also highly likely to deflect on hard angling shots. The ferrules are usually long and slender due to the blades being entirely entrapped in the ferrule. It makes more sense to me to have a shorter ferrule with some blade exposure. The Rage Hypodermic is a fairly good example of this. This allows the blades to give to the pressure due to their position of around 45 degrees. The blade slides open instead of jack knifing. This is why the Rage, the new T2, and heads like the rear deployed from B3 will always out penetrate heads with the blades stacked at 90 degrees, like GR or Sevr.

 

[GatorGar247]

I just don’t understand why over the toppers exist. We know that they take exponentially more energy to open, and give horrible entrance wounds. They are also highly likely to deflect on hard angling shots. The ferrules are usually long and slender due to the blades being entirely entrapped in the ferrule. It makes more sense to me to have a shorter ferrule with some blade exposure. The Rage Hypodermic is a fairly good example of this. This allows the blades to give to the pressure due to their position of around 45 degrees. The blade slides open instead of jack knifing. This is why the Rage, the new T2, and heads like the rear deployed from B3 will always out penetrate heads with the blades stacked at 90 degrees, like GR or Sevr.

How do we know they use up more energy? I shot an axis buck and doe last week with a grim reaper 1 3/8 pro. Both were still shaving hair when I picked the arrow up.. Doe was hard quartering away and I clipped her hind leg. Arrow didn't deflect.. the buck was shot through the front shoulders. The arrow busted the joint on the way out..
Now I do shoot a 485 grain arrow out of a 83 lb bow at 29 inches.. but I've never had the issue you speak of put of the 70 or so deer and hogs I've shot with them.. some of the hogs weighed over 300 lbs..

 

[Zac]

How do we know they use up more energy? I shot an axis buck and doe last week with a grim reaper 1 3/8 pro. Both were still shaving hair when I picked the arrow up.. Doe was hard quartering away and I clipped her hind leg. Arrow didn't deflect.. the buck was shot through the front shoulders. The arrow busted the joint on the way out..
Now I do shoot a 485 grain arrow out of a 83 lb bow at 29 inches.. but I've never had the issue you speak of put of the 70 or so deer and hogs I've shot with them.. some of the hogs weighed over 300 lbs..

All the push tests I've seen had GR at the top for pressure required to penetrate. Bill from IW has had multiple casts on the issue. Anyways even without push tests anyone that understands physics can look at the jack knife mechanism and see that the blades open in direct opposition to the medium impacted. This shape ( | ), has to become this \. Obviously the quickest most efficient route to that angle would be for the blade to traverse counter clockwise, or in and down. The most inefficient and thus most energy consuming would be for that blade to open up clockwise, or top down. This is the reason for the possible deflections. If the tip misses, and the blade catches, it can't simply slide out of the way. It's forced straight back into the ferrule. I would ask you why you are wasting all that energy on that style of head. You could have a massive wound channel upon entry and exit with your setup. Instead your penciling in. At some point in the cavity the blades will open to their full diameter and you will get a nice exit. However you are not damaging near as much tissue as you would with a rear deploying head. The only good think I have to say about GR is that they make the best Trocar tip in the business. They obviously fly very good, however not any better than superior designs such as the Sevr. Also doesn't help that they explode every time Lusk fires one into a piece of MDF.

 

[GatorGar247]

All the push tests I've seen had GR at the top for pressure required to penetrate. Bill from IW has had multiple casts on the issue. Anyways even without push tests anyone that understands physics can look at the jack knife mechanism and see that the blades open in direct opposition to the medium impacted. This shape ( | ), has to become this \. Obviously the quickest most efficient route to that angle would be for the blade to traverse counter clockwise, or in and down. The most inefficient and thus most energy consuming would be for that blade to open up clockwise, or top down. This is the reason for the possible deflections. If the tip misses, and the blade catches, it can't simply slide out of the way. It's forced straight back into the ferrule. I would ask you why you are wasting all that energy on that style of head. You could have a massive wound channel upon entry and exit with your setup. Instead your penciling in. At some point in the cavity the blades will open to their full diameter and you will get a nice exit. However you are not damaging near as much tissue as you would with a rear deploying head. The only good think I have to say about GR is that they make the best Trocar tip in the business. They obviously fly very good, however not any better than superior designs such as the Sevr. Also doesn't help that they explode every time Lusk fires one into a piece of MDF.

I don't think push test tell the whole story.
I'm not saying a rear deploying head doesn't use less energy but the only one that comes close to the same wound channel is a dead meat or mega meat.. Every rear deploy head I've used sucks for still hunting and spot in stalk . They hang up on brush and deploy.
Every animal I've shot with the reapers had massive entry and exit wounds.. they depress the hide before deployment causing a larger cut. I don't see any reason for me to stop shooting them.. but I'd also like to see an actual force test at full speed to see how much it actually takes to open them. Unless I hit bone I never hear the arrow hit the animal. Seems like I'd hear a loud smack if the head was that hard to deploy..
I've had better penetration with the gr than I did with the sevr 1.5s. Way better entry and exits too..

 

[dtrkyman]

A slow push test is virtually useless, an arrow from a modern compound is flying in excess of 170 mph from even a slow bow. Which drastically changes how it opens.

Take a dull azz butter knife, add a little pressure and speed and it will cut paper clean, I am not saying there is not an advantage to sharp and COC but it is a bit over blown.

The 1 3/8th reaper was designed by Jay for low energy set ups, and most do not realize they were also designed so they could be shot in the open position as well.

 

[Zac]

A slow push test is virtually useless, an arrow from a modern compound is flying in excess of 170 mph from even a slow bow. Which drastically changes how it opens.

Take a dull azz butter knife, add a little pressure and speed and it will cut paper clean, I am not saying there is not an advantage to sharp and COC but it is a bit over blown.

The 1 3/8th reaper was designed by Jay for low energy set ups, and most do not realize they were also designed so they could be shot in the open position as well.

You could be right about the push test. I don't have any real data on them. I know a lot of legitimate killers use them. Most of my conclusions come from push tests and tests from guys like Lusk. The entrance holes he's presented in card board and gel have always been extremely small. Combine that with less than stellar durability, and it makes for a rather unimpressive option. I may get laughed out of here for this, however a lot of my aversion to them was due to listening to Dorge talk about the over the top design failure rates compared to every other mechanism. I still think it's an idiotic design, and don't understand why anyone would use one, but that is based purely upon subjective speculation. I don't shoot enough animals to randomly try different heads or I would. I think if energy is appropriate the rear deploying hybrid is the best design there is. COC is going to provide great penetration, as well as a failsafe in case the blades fail. Rear deploying also means you get blood on the ground. I have only archery mule deer hunted in the thickest buck brush in both Wyoming, and Utah. I wouldn't dream of shooting something that is only going to give me a pin prick going in. Even if I was going to use a super high energy setup, it's not going to go all the way through if it hits the off side shoulder.

 

[5MilesBack]

Also doesn't help that they explode every time Lusk fires one into a piece of MDF.

I've shot several through 3/4" plywood without issues, including severe angle shots.

So....what's a good rear-deploying 1.5" cut 3-blade head? I tried the T3's before they were the Dead Meats and hated those. You mention small entry holes but the entry with a NAP Spitfire (same over the top three blade design) was about the size of the end of the handle on a baseball bat. That was a big bull with no exit on a quartering away shot, and there was lots of blood.

The bull in my avatar was shot with a 125gr GR Fatal Steel. That's the entrance in the picture that actually went through the lower part of the shoulder blade, and the blood on the ground this side of him was from his mouth and nose. He went down very quickly.

 

[Zac]

I've shot several through 3/4" plywood without issues, including severe angle shots.

So....what's a good rear-deploying 1.5" cut 3-blade head? I tried the T3's before they were the Dead Meats and hated those. You mention small entry holes but the entry with a NAP Spitfire (same over the top three blade design) was about the size of the end of the handle on a baseball bat. That was a big bull with no exit on a quartering away shot, and there was lots of blood.
View attachment 730020
The bull in my avatar was shot with a 125gr GR Fatal Steel. That's the entrance in the picture that actually went through the lower part of the shoulder blade, and the blood on the ground this side of him was from his mouth and nose. He went down very quickly.

I didn’t say there was one. I can’t explain why some people get a good hole on the way in either. It doesn’t make sense to me. My guess is that if it does happen it isn’t consistent every time. As far as blood on the ground that is very circumstantial. Where I hunt I typically shoot steep downhill shots. So I need something that is most likely to give me a big hole. Rear deployers have their issues as well. Most don’t stay fully expanded through the cavity unless the blades lock. Another reason why I want a COC in the front and not just a point. Everything is a trade off, and I believe you are giving up the most with a jack knife design. The only way to improve blade opening on them would be to position them like this /. If I remember right you have some ridiculous draw length so you will probably never notice the energy disparity. This is probably the reason you are shooting something with 3 blades as well. It may be your best option if you want to use a 3 blade. Wayne Endicott had some really poor performance with the Deadmeat on Axis deer in Hawaii. I know he has been happy with GR to fill that selection in his store. The last thing I will say about the 3 blade is that it is probably cutting less tissue than a 2 blade. Even in gel it takes a while for those jack knifes to open. That is why IMO people think they penetrate better than other designs.

 

[5MilesBack]

For the life of me I can't figure out how they don't fully open from being pushed against the hide on the way in. I would expect them all to be fully open and cutting the hide. All I know is that they really do a number on the lungs. Every animal I've shot with these heads has been blowing blood out of their nose and mouth.

 

[Zac]

For the life of me I can't figure out how they don't fully open from being pushed against the hide on the way in. I would expect them all to be fully open and cutting the hide. All I know is that they really do a number on the lungs. Every animal I've shot with these heads has been blowing blood out of their nose and mouth.

Time is my guess, not enough time for the blade to make that arc. I may have no idea what I’m talking about. I just always believe if something works there should be scientific evidence that it does. There is a large disconnect with GR in this instance. People like yourself report great performance on game. However they fail miserably on tests. For my peace of mind I would rather have good reports from both sides. I will never use something that blows blades off in MDF. That’s a red line in the sand for me.

 

[GatorGar247]

Time is my guess, not enough time for the blade to make that arc. I may have no idea what I’m talking about. I just always believe if something works there should be scientific evidence that it does. There is a large disconnect with GR in this instance. People like yourself report great performance on game. However they fail miserably on tests. For my peace of mind I would rather have good reports from both sides. I will never use something that blows blades off in MDF. That’s a red line in the sand for me.

Grim reaper tells you not to shoot the heads into a target or wood because of how they open. Animals are soft . Bones are under the meat which gives enough for the heads to open.. here's a couple of pictures from my axis hunt last week .
That's the exit on the buck and blood trail from the doe.. the blood trail is what I typically get from these heads.. I'd like to see consistent blood trails like that from a fixed 2 blade. I shoot 15 or 20 animals a year. I have access to all the hogs I want to kill so have shot a ton of different heads. 2 blade coc are about the worst head I've shot.. They have their place. Low poundage , kids and women.. Imo you should shoot the largest cut you can and still get a pass through.. There's no trophy for sticking an arrow a foot in the ground . That's wasted energy..

 

[Zac]

Grim reaper tells you not to shoot the heads into a target or wood because of how they open. Animals are soft . Bones are under the meat which gives enough for the heads to open.. here's a couple of pictures from my axis hunt last week .
That's the exit on the buck and blood trail from the doe.. the blood trail is what I typically get from these heads.. I'd like to see consistent blood trails like that from a fixed 2 blade. I shoot 15 or 20 animals a year. I have access to all the hogs I want to kill so have shot a ton of different heads. 2 blade coc are about the worst head I've shot.. They have their place. Low poundage , kids and women.. Imo you should shoot the largest cut you can and still get a pass through.. There's no trophy for sticking an arrow a foot in the ground . That's wasted energy..

I haven't mentioned a two blade COC during this thread. Maybe I need to clarify and say that I was talking about rear deploying two blades with a blade on the front. Like the Rage Extreme, or the Trifecta heads. Anyways your results look great. I'm not trying to convince anyone not to use GR. I have my opinions on them that may be entirely false, but it is what I saw, as I said before. Anything that comes apart in MDF is out for me. Anything that deploys over the top is out for me. I think the best over top head on the market is the Evolution. I won't use that one either.

 

[Kularrow]

Ultimately isn’t the argument about shot placement. I use GR WTS special but I do not aim at the shoulder and I use them because I am purposely aiming for a double lung that would produce much more blood but those are at whitetail distances in a much more controlled environment. People probably have favorable outcomes with any mech because of shot placement. I do not think any mech really allows for a tight slightly quartering too shot which is why IW Bill is against Mechs because a strong COC allows you more forgiving effective set up for those shots specifically and if you use the Wide it provides a large cutting diameter similar to a mech but I think for most Whitetail mech users specifically have bow tuning issues or not tuned at all and mechs with large blazer vanes will essentially hide those tuning issues so when they do have a good outcome with a Rage or GR it isn’t confirmation that the mech is good or superior but probably you had a better shot placement that compliments that broadheads ability. The same untuned bow with 300fps mech with bad arrow flight in a quartering shot that hits shoulder is probably not recovered.