308 vs. 30-06 under 400 yards

[Lock3]

I know this question has probably been beat to death in different permutations but hoping for some direct clarity.

I currently have a 308 Tikka CTR (20 inch barrel) that I'm shooting 165 grain trophy coppers out of. It's a little heavy and I'm going to pick up a new T3x lite (with the factory threads) to build a new rifle but can't decide between 308 and 30-06.

I am hunting black bear and deer in very steep mountains (or sometimes wild pigs in the hills), and am thinking about whether it would be a good idea to pick up a 30-06 to shoot 180s. For the deer/bear, if they run too far, I wouldn't be able to retrieve in many places. I'm trying to avoid magnum calibers until I move up in game size.

If most of my shots are inside of 400 yards, will the animal be more likely to drop faster if both bullets hit the same spot with a 180 grain 30-06 vs 165 grain 308?

I’m not super worried about versatility for elk because (1) I won’t do that for another year or two and (2) I’d buy another gun in a magnum cart.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Not going to matter either way

 

[kkp005]

Welcome to Rokslide. An abundance of great information on here!

You’re not going to get much love for copper bullets over here . They are Deep penetrating but leave a narrow wound channel.

Solid choice on a tikka!
-I’d go with a short 308 and good can
-A softer “Match” bullet - think Hornady ELD-m or Sierra tipped matching
- A scope that actually holds zero, check out the scope evaluations

 

[TreeDog]

If dead set on 308 or 30-06, go 308. Less recoil, better ammo selection, and plenty for normal hunting ranges. And it will do just fine on elk when you do go.

 

[Lock3]

Welcome to Rokslide. An abundance of great information on here!

You’re not going to get much love for copper bullets over here . They are Deep penetrating but leave a narrow wound channel.

Solid choice on a tikka!
-I’d go with a short 308 and good can
-A softer “Match” bullet - think Hornady ELD-m or Sierra tipped matching
- A scope that actually holds zero, check out the scope evaluations

Thank you. I live in CA so I need non-lead unfortunately or I’d be shooting ELDX. Already have a Maven RS1.2 and a Trijicon Tenmile 3-18. Will move one to the new rifle.

 

[chanson_roland]

Thank you. I live in CA so I need non-lead unfortunately or I’d be shooting ELDX. Already have a Maven RS1.2 and a Trijicon Tenmile 3-18. Will move one to the new rifle.

I sensed you were in CA. I could visualize steep hills and manzanita trees in your post, somewhere on the Central Coast, with the blue Pacific in the background....LOL

 

[Taudisio]

Being that you are stuck with copper, my vote is a 308 and the faster, the better, with copper.

Find a good compromise with bullet weight/drop with whichever copper brand you settle on. I would think a 150-165 should be in the wheelhouse. You’ll want to keep impact velocities north of 2000fps. Punch in the bullet you want to use and your expected velocity. See how far out you get before dropping under 2000 (I think it is recommended to stay above 2200 fps, so you may want to use that instead). If it’s not enough yardage with the 308, try your expected 30-06 velocity and see if it gets you there. You can always look at the WSM then WM and so on to see how far they will get you if the 308 or 06 won’t get you where you want to be.

 

[Lock3]

If dead set on 308 or 30-06, go 308. Less recoil, better ammo selection, and plenty for normal hunting ranges. And it will do just fine on elk when you do go.

I'm dead set on one of these for my second rifle. Longest effective barrel lives for easily accessible rounds that I can hunt big game with.

I've been shooting 400 rounds a month as practice -- would've had to replace the barrel on a rifle with a faster cartridge 2 times by now. Once I shoot out this next barrel, I'll probably switch my deer caliber to 6.5 PRC and pick up a 300WM as well.

From a money standpoint, I'm prioritizing spend on rounds while I'm learning and it doesn't make sense to work on my fundamentals on higher performance rounds given 2-3x less barrel life (cheaper for me just to replace a Tikka than rebarrel). $1000 buys me a lot of hunting rounds to practice with.

 

[hereinaz]

Ballistically, the difference at those ranges is pretty irrelevant if you can effectively range a target and dial. The 30-06 gives you more MPBR though. In terminal ballistics, the extra speed of the 30-06 is beneficial at the furthest ranges with copper.

You know you are choosing two from one caliber that is larger than you need. Because the 06 is harder to shoot with recoil, I would say get the 308.

The difference is minimal, and shootability wins over everything else because reality is few shooters are willing to take repeated recoil in a hunting weight rifle over a 308.

 

[Vern400]

I am a 308 hunter and shooter.
For a hand loader I might suggest 30/06.
Why? It has case capacity to exceed factory loads.
IF you reload, 30/06 » 308. Even with an ought six id stick with a 165 at 400 yards. I'm assuming you're running a 22-in barrel in my comments.

Factory loads only? I'd go with 308 and a higher velocity copper solid. Don't use a slow copper. You'll be disappointed if it doesn't open up.

There's not enough difference to matter a whole lot if you run the gun right. Good luck.

 

[Thegman]

I've hunted with, and loaded for those two cartridges more than anything else.

If you're buying factory ammo, the difference between the two with respect to velocity will likely be negligible. In fact, I often saw more velocity from 308 loads compared to 30-06 loads with the same weight and type bullets in a lot of factory ammo. Unless you're handloading and stuffing a 30-06 case with slower powder, it's really not much different than a 308, and even then, it's still not much different.

I think both are great cartridges, but I’d pick the 308 in this case (and I have the T3 Superlite in 30-06, fwiw). Both are just fine for 400 yards, the 308 just a little less noise and recoil, and a little more factory ammo availability.

 

[ATL]

Game will not notice the difference between .308 or 30.06, either will work. Go light for copper bullets to maximize velocity for proper performance. 130-150 grain. Will also lessen the recoil. No need for a magnum.

 

[Lock3]

Game will not notice the difference between .308 or 30.06, either will work. Go light for copper bullets to maximize velocity for proper performance. 130-150 grain. Will also lessen the recoil. No need for a magnum.

Does velocity matter more than ft/lbs of energy for stopping power? I always though the latter was more important, which is why I was considering 30-06. There's a lot more retained energy in a 180 grain copper 06 bullet than 165 grain copper 308.

 

[Lock3]

Ballistically, the difference at those ranges is pretty irrelevant if you can effectively range a target and dial. The 30-06 gives you more MPBR though. In terminal ballistics, the extra speed of the 30-06 is beneficial at the furthest ranges with copper.

You know you are choosing two from one caliber that is larger than you need. Because the 06 is harder to shoot with recoil, I would say get the 308.

The difference is minimal, and shootability wins over everything else because reality is few shooters are willing to take repeated recoil in a hunting weight rifle over a 308.

I don't mind the recoil from my 308 at all, I've put enough rounds through it that I barely notice it at all now. In a hunting weight rifle, I'd probably add a brake (regardless of 308/30-06), which would make it even lighter recoiling than my current rifle.

Would you choose differently if the recoil were irrelevant between the two options?

 

[waspocrew]

Of the two, I'd go with the 308 for many of the already stated reasons above.

 

[rookieforever33]

Does velocity matter more than ft/lbs of energy for stopping power? I always though the latter was more important, which is why I was considering 30-06. There's a lot more retained energy in a 180 grain copper 06 bullet than 165 grain copper 308.

Check the specs. At those ranges the added speed of a 150gr copper over a 165gr copper may give you more energy. Plus the added speed is needed for expansion on the copper rounds.

 

[Southern Lights]

I have a 30-06 130gr TTSX load that does 3100fps at Barnes book max. It's basically turned it into a 270 and is ripping fast. My 308 with the same weight bullet won't go above about 2900. If you shoot monos, you want the speed. They don't lose weight so you can shoot at 130 and it will be equivalent to about a 150-165 gr. 30 cal bullet.

When you shoot copper, you need to disregard traditional advice on bullet weight and shoot lighter/faster. Copper does not shed weight as it penetrates so the standard advice does not apply. You want to be going really fast on impact.

At 3100fps, the Barnes 130gr ttsx has an impact speed just above 2200fps at 300 and just above 2000fps at 400 which I'd say is absolute max range for the copper. So for your hunting ranges, the 30-06 with copper may be the ticket. I would try to keep monos at 2200fps impact if possible. Disregard minimums stated by Barnes as they will barely open.

 

[Taudisio]

Does velocity matter more than ft/lbs of energy for stopping power? I always though the latter was more important, which is why I was considering 30-06. There's a lot more retained energy in a 180 grain copper 06 bullet than 165 grain copper 308.

The ONLY things that matter are bullet construction and impact velocity. That should be your only concern. And you basically have a constant bullet construction with using copper. So at the end of the day, you only need to focus on your impact velocity. I crunched a few numbers and 308 velocities are on the edge of your minimal expansion threshold at 400 yards.

Do you have a specific 130-165gr bullet or factory offering in mind that you prefer to use?

 

[hereinaz]

I don't mind the recoil from my 308 at all, I've put enough rounds through it that I barely notice it at all now. In a hunting weight rifle, I'd probably add a brake (regardless of 308/30-06), which would make it even lighter recoiling than my current rifle.

Would you choose differently if the recoil were irrelevant between the two options?

If you don't mind recoil then go with the 06 for the velocity for external and terminal ballistics. There's more powder, so recoil in same/same is never equal.

Like @Taudisio said, the 308 with solids is less reliable at the extreme of the range you listed.

 

[oldskool67]

Does velocity matter more than ft/lbs of energy for stopping power? I always though the latter was more important, which is why I was considering 30-06. There's a lot more retained energy in a 180 grain copper 06 bullet than 165 grain copper 308.

It does for the copper bullet to properly open up on an animal