.308 federal fusion and elk

[Grapeape]

Hello! I’ve read a ton of great information on this forum. There seems to be a lot of experience floating around here.

I have a question related to my most recent elk hunt.

I live in central Washington near Ellensburg. I’m an opportunistic hunter more than anything. I have young kids and a farm and a full time job. I’m self taught. For better or worse, I learn by fire.

This year I filled a damage tag for and antlerless elk. I’ve gotten 7 this way, and never during general season! My employer gets tags! Real perk of the job.

This year I bought a .308 browning ab3. It’s great! I’ve been hunting with a browning a bolt 2 in .300 win mag. I wanted to practice more and spend less on ammo doing it.

I got my elk with the .308 this year and it did a fantastic job. 120 paces. Prone on my backpack just like you practice! One lung shot quartering and away. It went rite down. I waited patiently it stood up and started down hill so I hit it again in the shoulder. This was already going to be a big haul and I didn’t need another drainage to climb. The shoulder shot was dang near a pass through! It destroyed the left shoulder blade and through the opposite side rib cage and blasted the other shoulder! Stopped just shy of the hide.

When processing it the shock damage was immense. Way more than I had seen when I used the .300 win mag. I ground 20 pounds up my my dog.

In my .300 I always used core lokt 180gr . I was using federal fusion 180gr in the .308. Never have I shot one more than 325 yards.

I’m still learning about all the different types of ammo. And really hunting and processing.

For an elk do I want better penetration? Or a light bullet? Is the extra power of the magnum the difference? Or bullet type?

Second question, is blood trail. This was a snowy cold day. And for practice sake I wanted to find the impact site and “track” it even though it was 20’ away. There was
No blood anywhere, none. I could even tel where it was standing amongst all the tracks. Is this bullet type? Or just a fatso that bled internally?


Thanks for any help!
Eric

 

[Grapeape]

I’ve gotten 7 between damage tags and salvage tags.. opportunistic!

 

[MT-nuffgun]

Blood trails are inconsistent in my experience. As much depends on the individual critter and shot placement/ full pass through. There are many different camps concerning bullet construction. Some guys like light copper bullets, but with copper you need higher velocity to get reliable expansion. Some guys like heavy cup and core bullets for many reasons from higher bc to more effect on target and penetration/ reliable expansion at long range/ low velocity. Or simply because Cup and core bullets are cheap and they work. The third camp is all about bonded bullets, which would be the fusions you killed your elk with. The benefit to these bullets is more reliable expansion across the velocity range compared to copper bullets, and more retained weight than cup and core bullets.

 

[MT-nuffgun]

Cup and core bullets are considered by some to be explosive at close range/high velocity and have the best chance for reliable expansion at long range/low velocity. This past season I used a .270 win with 130gr sierra gamekings which are consider frangible cup and core bullets. First kill was an antelope buck at 320 yards. Buck was quartered away hard, bullet entered about 3 inches behind to last rib. Lungs and heart were nothing but a pile of jello. Bullet did not exit. Buck ran 20 yards. The second critter with the 130 gr gameking was a rutted up mule deer buck hot on a doe. First shot was broadside at 100 yards 2” behind the shoulder. Buck ran quartered toward me about 50 yards around the butte. Second shot was quartering away at 80 yards. Bullet entered just behind the last rib. First bullet was a complete pass through destroying both lungs and leaving a tennis ball sized exit. Second bullet further destroyed lungs and heart, though it was hard to tell since the first bullet pretty much turned the vitals to jello. This buck did not need the second shot but like I said earlier, cup and core bullets are cheap and rutted up mule deer have a special will to live. I personally fall in the cup and core bullet camp. The sierra gameking is one of the more explosive cup and core bullets I have used and I still feel totally confident I will get enough penetration at close range to destroy lungs.

 

[Grapeape]

Is this how they are supposed to work then? It’s obviously has a lot of energy. And dang it! I got it. The fusions shoot very accurately in this gun. If I’m expecting to make shots less than 300 yards. What would I expect to see if this was much further away? Honestly feeding my dog isn’t a waste either. I like him, but I’d rather have it for myself and kids.

 

[MT-nuffgun]

The bonded fusion bullets should be less destructive on shoulders at .308 velocities than core-lokt bullets at 300 win mag velocities. Either way, if you want to eat shoulders don’t shoot shoulders, but there also is the fact that the cow elk in question could have made it to the bottom of the drainage with just the first shot, which would have given you 20lbs more meat. It’s all pro’s vs con’s. The all copper guys might tell you they will still eat the shoulders after shooting them. But copper bullets ain’t cheap either and they are not much good at longer range/low velocity. I don’t eat much rib meat so I send cheap cup and core bullets behind the shoulders and obliterate the lungs. At the ranges you are shooting there is nothing wrong with the fusion bullets you are shooting, of course there is probably nothing wrong with any of the 3 bullet types at those ranges. As far as I can tell, dead critters don’t have any opinions.

 

[Grapeape]

Hind sight I should have let it walk a little. Elk are big! I just reacted and I had read I could stop one in there tracks with a should shot. It worked for sure. But the results are dog food and some experience points. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

 

[MT-nuffgun]

Shoulder shots absolutely have better odds of dropping the animal where it stands but it also comes at a cost. I Had a deer standing 50 yards from a property boundary a few years back and decided to take a shoulder shot. The buck dropped in his tracks, but not much eating left for the shoulders. If those fusion bullets shoot good out of your .308 and you are comfortable with the cost of that ammo then I think you have great combo. I mean you have proof that it works and judging by you photos, the bullet did exactly what it was designed to do.

 

[nick2021]

Agree on all points

Shoulder shots absolutely have better odds of dropping the animal where it stands but it also comes at a cost. I Had a deer standing 50 yards from a property boundary a few years back and decided to take a shoulder shot. The buck dropped in his tracks, but not much eating left for the shoulders. If those fusion bullets shoot good out of your .308 and you are comfortable with the cost of that ammo then I think you have great combo. I mean you have proof that it works and judging by you photos, the bullet did exactly what it was designed to do.

 

[Grapeape]

I couldn’t agree more. $1.75 a round isn’t cheap. For practice I’m using mag tech fmj stuff and it’s less than $1. That’s great by me! It uses the same scope settings too. The groups aren’t as good.

It definitely worked. I’m very happy with that. I might consider moving the .300 on. Dog food and experience are not negatives either. Especially the experience. I’ve not had very many and everyone was different. I don’t need to explain much to you I’m sure. The joy of practicing for one moment and then pulling it off is incredible. It all came together and I didn’t fumble. The weather, animals, wind, and me at the same time. It’s so cool and trying to explain it to someone who has never experienced it is not possible. Like explaining an emotion or something less tangible. I still get the adrenaline rush and excitement. I hope it never gets less intense. Hopefully one day I’ll be able to go on some mountain hunt and be in the woods for a week. These damage tags are such a gift though. Here the only shooters are true spikes. Its
Like unicorn with two obviously. I saw 3 in a herd of 350 or more. Woohoo! I’m getting excited for next year already.

 

[Tmac]

I've used Fusions to take antelope/deer and elk in 223, 25-06, 270 and 280. While the electroplating does bond the core to jacket, I don’t think of it as a tough bonded bullet. I think of it as performing terminally like a cup and core bullet. I’ve had a few early on in 130 gr 270 and 140 gr 280 fragment severely on elk. Dead elk but we lost some meat due to placement. Usually don’t use them for meat/cow hunts any more in those two cartridges.

The manufacturing process used on the bullet leaves a fairly even layer of jacket over the core. It’s not thicker near the base that I’ve seen, like an Accubond is. So the fusion usually expands real well and can result in more meat loss and fewer exits than a tougher built bullet. All that said, I’d have no qualms using the 180gr 308 offering on elk at the ranges you describe.

 

[Canada2PNW]

I've used Fusions to take antelope/deer and elk in 223, 25-06, 270 and 280. While the electroplating does bond the core to jacket, I don’t think of it as a tough bonded bullet. I think of it as performing terminally like a cup and core bullet. I’ve had a few early on in 130 gr 270 and 140 gr 280 fragment severely on elk. Dead elk but we lost some meat due to placement. Usually don’t use them for meat/cow hunts any more in those two cartridges.

The manufacturing process used on the bullet leaves a fairly even layer of jacket over the core. It’s not thicker near the base that I’ve seen, like an Accubond is. So the fusion usually expands real well and can result in more meat loss and fewer exits than a tougher built bullet. All that said, I’d have no qualms using the 180gr 308 offering on elk at the ranges you describe.

I’ve taken two elk in the last two years with my 270 wsm with 150 grain fusions. They worked well and I won’t hesitate to use them again (be nice if I could find some more).

 

[Tmac]

I’ve taken two elk in the last two years with my 270 wsm with 150 grain fusions. They worked well and I won’t hesitate to use them again (be nice if I could find some more).

I wish my 270 win liked the 150 Fusions, but it hates them. Based on reports from others, apparently it’s a great performer. Know of some AK interior Griz taken with them. I think the speed is a little too much for the 130’s if close for my taste on meat hunts. I know some other guys love the 130‘s. Hope you find some 150’s soon.

 

[Beendare]

The old which bullet is better thread…..

Well its the one that hits where you are aiming. How many hundreds of thousands of elk have died from a 30cal bullet?

 

[commandoNate]

Of the probably 20-25 elk I've seen go down between myself and my hunting partner I have noticed that when the bullet doesn't exit the animal there is WAY less of a blood trail, sometimes none at all. All of them were with .30-06 or .308. Not real scientific but that has been my observation.