30-30 Copper ammo (Barnes) penciled through Whitetail Buck this morning...thoughts?

[polishmanmike]

...this morning around 8, I was sitting in my stand. Out of the woods "colonel" emerges (those are 2 bucks in my area I have been catching on camera, "colonel" and "general", "colonel" being smaller than "general" obviously, but still a decent bodied 7 pointer, maybe 8 depends who you ask, but that's a story for another day). I am wielding my 1986 Marlin 336 cs, loaded with 150gr Barnes VOR-TX, outfitted with a Diamondback on top.
"Colonel" positions himself broadside, bends his head down to eat, he is about 30 yards out, I am in my climber in the tree (I use my 30-30 there, it's a fun gun, no shots over 100 yards). Head lifts, I have my crosshairs right behind his shoulder. I squeeze the trigger.

Before I go on, this was my first time using this bullet on deer, I have read some great reviews about the demolishing power of this bullet, with the petals, weight retention, the works. I used to use the good ol corelokts but started using venison to make baby food, didn't want any lead in there, hence picked up these copper ones (I could be wrong about the lead in deer meat, I could be believing the hoax on the internet, I like using coppers on what I will feed my child, okay? okay.) To make this even cooler, "colonel" stands in front of my camera (with 30 seconds clips setting) so I capture the whole thing on film.

The shot was good, right behind the shoulder (I have film to prove it haha), he jumps, then takes off down hill, jumps over barb wire, tumbles, then runs some more, I lose sight of him. No big deal, I will go to the spot I shot him look for blood trail and follow it.
No blood where I shot him, that I could find. I move on down where I thought he ran, trying to step on rocks to not kick any leaves up, looking for blood, nothing. I finally found a drop, followed it, more drops. Just drops (and I think the first spot was where he tumbled, so that could have been even ground contact trail). I finally followed some more blood drops, looked around and saw him lying there under a tree stump. He probably ran good 75-80 yards maybe, it was all zigzagged so hard to tell.

Point of my novel? Well for your enjoyment first and foremost but also to ask this. When I found "colonel" he had an entry and exit wound, both about size of my pinky, he was shot on the lung entry and closer to shoulder exit (but didn't hit the shoulder).
1. Anyone has any experience with 150gr Barnes VOR-TX?
2. I was expecting a much larger expansion from this ammo, I mean internal damage, exit wound the whole thing. From 30 yards out. And I mean...I didn't think there was going to be an exit wound size of my pinky.
3. I was expecting there to be a better blood trail from this shot considering the distance, type of ammo, etc.

Seems like the bullet just penciled through, hitting the lungs, and eventually killing the "colonel", but didn't seem like what this round should have done. Looking at the hollow point bullet, designed for expansion and damage, websites speak of petals that peel back and wreck havoc...all of that, I would have thought it was going to be a DRT type of a situation especially from 30 yards out, or at least a crazy blood trail, assuming the shot was well placed.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?
At the moment, accuracy wasn't the best out of my Marlin but good enough for deer woods out to 100 yards, real life experience not perfect either, thinking about switching up the ammo. Or did I just miss the whole thing and this ammo does. Just that.

 

[Wolfshead]

I’m going to say that it probably wasn’t going fast enough to open at the distance you were shooting.
Me personally I would be shooting light for caliber bullets out of a .30 cal especially 30-30.
I understand 100% why you would want to shoot copper especially for your young ones.
But I think you would be better off using a copper bullet designed for the 30-30 than the 150 ttsx.
Hornady makes a copper bullet I believe it’s called the mono flex (?)
140 grain but designed for the 30-30.

 

[ZAK13]

I'm thinking the bullet wasn't pushed fast enough for it to expand. The TTSX needs 1800-2000fps minimum to expand, depending on who you talk to. So without knowing the velocity, and knowing the 30-30 is historically a low velocity cartridge, I'm leaning on lack of velocity being the culprit.

 

[Live_weighT34]

I’m going to say that it probably wasn’t going fast enough to open at the distance you were shooting.
Me personally I would be shooting light for caliber bullets out of a .30 cal especially 30-30.
I understand 100% why you would want to shoot copper especially for your young ones.
But I think you would be better off using a copper bullet designed for the 30-30 than the 150 ttsx.
Hornady makes a copper bullet I believe it’s called the mono flex (?)
140 grain but designed for the 30-30.

The box velocity for Barnes 30-30 across the board is well over 2200fps the only exception is the 190gr pioneer, and he said the buck was only 30 yards away. Velocity wasn’t an issue. And neither was the bullet. Coppers just don’t blow up like a lead core. They expand fast, hold weight and drive through.

 

[Live_weighT34]

...this morning around 8, I was sitting in my stand. Out of the woods "colonel" emerges (those are 2 bucks in my area I have been catching on camera, "colonel" and "general", "colonel" being smaller than "general" obviously, but still a decent bodied 7 pointer, maybe 8 depends who you ask, but that's a story for another day). I am wielding my 1986 Marlin 336 cs, loaded with 150gr Barnes VOR-TX, outfitted with a Diamondback on top.
"Colonel" positions himself broadside, bends his head down to eat, he is about 30 yards out, I am in my climber in the tree (I use my 30-30 there, it's a fun gun, no shots over 100 yards). Head lifts, I have my crosshairs right behind his shoulder. I squeeze the trigger.

Before I go on, this was my first time using this bullet on deer, I have read some great reviews about the demolishing power of this bullet, with the petals, weight retention, the works. I used to use the good ol corelokts but started using venison to make baby food, didn't want any lead in there, hence picked up these copper ones (I could be wrong about the lead in deer meat, I could be believing the hoax on the internet, I like using coppers on what I will feed my child, okay? okay.) To make this even cooler, "colonel" stands in front of my camera (with 30 seconds clips setting) so I capture the whole thing on film.

The shot was good, right behind the shoulder (I have film to prove it haha), he jumps, then takes off down hill, jumps over barb wire, tumbles, then runs some more, I lose sight of him. No big deal, I will go to the spot I shot him look for blood trail and follow it.
No blood where I shot him, that I could find. I move on down where I thought he ran, trying to step on rocks to not kick any leaves up, looking for blood, nothing. I finally found a drop, followed it, more drops. Just drops (and I think the first spot was where he tumbled, so that could have been even ground contact trail). I finally followed some more blood drops, looked around and saw him lying there under a tree stump. He probably ran good 75-80 yards maybe, it was all zigzagged so hard to tell.

Point of my novel? Well for your enjoyment first and foremost but also to ask this. When I found "colonel" he had an entry and exit wound, both about size of my pinky, he was shot on the lung entry and closer to shoulder exit (but didn't hit the shoulder).
1. Anyone has any experience with 150gr Barnes VOR-TX?
2. I was expecting a much larger expansion from this ammo, I mean internal damage, exit wound the whole thing. From 30 yards out. And I mean...I didn't think there was going to be an exit wound size of my pinky.
3. I was expecting there to be a better blood trail from this shot considering the distance, type of ammo, etc.

Seems like the bullet just penciled through, hitting the lungs, and eventually killing the "colonel", but didn't seem like what this round should have done. Looking at the hollow point bullet, designed for expansion and damage, websites speak of petals that peel back and wreck havoc...all of that, I would have thought it was going to be a DRT type of a situation especially from 30 yards out, or at least a crazy blood trail, assuming the shot was well placed.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?
At the moment, accuracy wasn't the best out of my Marlin but good enough for deer woods out to 100 yards, real life experience not perfect either, thinking about switching up the ammo. Or did I just miss the whole thing and this ammo does. Just that.

I haven’t used that bullet yet but I’m planning on trying them out since I’m going to California next year to hunt bears, pigs and blacktail but I’ve used the 180 TTSX out of my 300 win on a mule deer and 4 cow elk and the only serious damage I saw out of those was a high shoulder hit on a cow elk at 400ish that hit a rib after the shoulder going in and blew a 4” hole in the rib cage. None of those 5 went very far if they ran at all and I didn’t loose much meat.

It’s just a fact that monos just don’t destroy like lead cores do since they’re built to stay together. That all being said I wouldn’t worry, plenty of hunters have deer run 80-100 yards on double lung hits with guns and bows and they still tip over

 

[Tod osier]

For anyone wondering this is what the factory barnes 150s for 30/30 look like.

 

[z987k]

Maker makes a bullet specifically for the 30-30 and it's velocities and it opens a lot more than any barnes does. I think that's the only copper bullet I'd consider using from a 30-30.

 

[sndmn11]

@polishmanmike did you recover any petals inside the lungs or open them up to see what damage there was?

At 30yds, it might be possible that you were moving fast enough for that bullet to open up fully and shear, with just a shank exiting.

 

[peaches]

Offside skin stretches and retracts. What did the lungs look like? I bet it expanded just fine. I've used big hollow point Barnes in muzzleloader and they work great. Shoot a bullet into some milk jugs to satisfy your curiosity. Deer don't always drop even when well hit.

 

[BKIdaho]

All bullets have a range in which they perform, meaning proper expansion. 1-2 minutes of Google searching shows this particular ammo has a muzzle velocity of 2350fps, maybe 100fps slower with a shorter carbine barrel. TSX bullets are engineered to expand somewhere between 1500-1800fps “minimum” for “adequate” expansion, generally longer range has higher min threshold, so I think your 100yd max is perfect for that cartridge/bullet combo.

Next, I can’t quite tell if you got both lungs or not by your comments or if the shot angled too far forward, but my guess is you did so perfect, as you said you did not hit either shoulder, again perfect for meat retention, but not for impressing you with bullet destruction.

If the deer, med bodied WT(med vs bigger MD and Elk), died in 75+\- yds, that seems fairly usual with a no bone lung shot. I would have expected a quarter sized exit, but if the bullet didn’t hit any bone and only had 16” of flesh to go through I may not have expanded 100% but did its job.

I flop back and fourth between Berger VLD’s and Barnes TTSX here in Idaho for Elk, MD, WT, and WY Antelope. I’ve had excellent experiences with both, and would give the fast expanding VLD’s the edge in quicker death, but think a TTSX provides a better chance to pass through anything and leave a blood trail, which is nice in N Idaho WT country and on big bodied elk. They fly like turds past 400yds though.

Bottom line, don’t give up on the TSX. If you want more destruction or bigger holes, either hit them in a shoulder or use a gun with a little more velocity. For now, enjoy all that tasty venison absent the lead chards, blood shot, and bone chards.

Congrats!!

Next time include pics!!!! Here is one of 150gr ttsx(7mmRM) at 300yds from 5x bull, found in off shoulder, 2500fps impact velocity.

 

[Mtnmilsurp]

Sounds like it worked great! Dead deer that ran only 75 yards. So he was probably stopped in less than 10 seconds?

I think that’s about as good as it gets with a double lung shot on an animal as wound up and ready to run as a whitetail.

If you want them to not travel so far you’ve got to hit that shoulder or the spine/neck or shoot them from a distance and concealment that doesn’t spook them. A suppressor would help too.

We shoot bucks on our 4 acres with Barnes bullets and try to get one shoulder and both lungs (quartering to or from). They can take up to a minute to expire but never get more than 10 yards.

 

[dirtshooter]

Similar to you only like 15 yards though. However the deer I killed a few years ago ran like 60 yards with a huge blood trail. Pass through of course. Shot with Barnes 150s out of a Win94 legendary lawmen trapper.

 

[Rich M]

Glad you found deer.

Curious - What kind of damage was in there when you gutted or processed the buck? Were the lungs destroyed or just a pink line thru them? Did bullet lose it's petals and just base exit? Only you have the answer regarding the actual internal damage.

My BiL uses 30-30 w copper Barnes and only deer I was with him for - he destroyed the heart, deer ran 100 yards, left 1 tiny speck of blood. I found it by following every deer trail from point of impact into thick pines.

 

[Choupique]

As others have said, it may well have expanded and fractured and just the heel exited.

At close range, assuming it was the correct .30-30 specific bullet someone posted a picture of above, it should have opened up.

I caught some of these bullets on sale and have a bunch of handloaded ones laying around I was planning to use a little this year, so I'm curious to know what the conclusion to this is.

 

[SDHNTR]

Shoot another non mono bullet or understand the limitations of copper bullets and use them accordingly. In your case, that means hit bone.

 

[flathead#2]

Just shoot corelocks and call it good.

 

[rookieforever33]

I shot 2 does last year with the same weight accutips out of my 20ga at the same distance. Both hit directly in the heart. 1st doe ran 80 yards and sprayed blood like crazy. The 2nd doe ran 30 yards without a drop. Lesson learned? Sample size of 1 doesnt tell the whole story. If you feel like lead in your childs food isnt worth it. Keep shooting monos until they stop killing deer or you change your mind.