3:1 Haul Ratio for hanging meat in the Backcountry

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WKR
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Dec 27, 2013
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Location
Durango CO
I should have taken better pics of this system, but I did not.

When it comes to properly securing meat in the backcountry, I find most hunter attitudes to be rather cavalier, usually along the lines of "I don't hang my meat in a predator proof manner and I've never had a problem." Well, I've had a problem before and lost a full game bag of elk meat to a bear while I was 3 hours down the mountain. In the past, I have attempted to hang my meat the same way I hang food with 2 cords, one of which is running through a carabiner. The problem you run into is there is simply too much friction to hoist more than about 50 lbs to at least 8 feet off the ground.

Once these Wiser precision pulleys became available, I knew this system could now become a reality in the backcountry.

The idea on paper:

pulley-3-1-basic.jpg
Seems simple enough in concept. I've even done this hauling heavy loads of gear for big wall climbing on faces such as El Cap and Half Dome in Yosemite, however, there is a fleet of specialized equipment for such hauling, you're using 10 mm rope which is much easier to work with and bolts for your anchors.

When it comes to setting up this system using trees, you have a few problems to consider.
1. Rope stretch in the system
2. Lightweight cord that is strong enough to handle load up to 250# in a geared fashion
3. Sufficiently strong trees with little flex under this kind of tension

What do you need?
Two 60 feet sections of 7/64 Amsteel cord
One 120 foot section of 7/64 Amsteel cord
3 Wiser Precision pulleys

The test on this cord is around 1500 lbs

Your two 60 footers will be your cross section ropes. You'll toss these over tree limbs and then tension them laterally. They won't be limited by the strength of the limb rather the lateral strength of the tree. In order to account for stretch, you'll need to get these high, definitely North of 15 feet up. Around 20 feet is going to be ideal. 20 feet up, 20 feet down is 40 feet. You have 60 foot cord to allow for the lateral expansion and room to tie off. 50 feet of cord probably won't be enough.

For your geared haul line, you need a single long section of cord that can go up and down the vertical length of your setup 3 times and still have room to hoist and tie off. Tying multiple pieces of cord together will not work since you cannot pass knots through the pulleys. 100 feet minimum, 120 feet is better.


IMG_7284.jpg

Pulley and tie off at the game bags.

IMG_7285.PNG
The 2 lateral lines equalized with a figure 8 knot on a bite, carabiner at the loop below the figure 8 and 2 Wiser Precision pulleys hanging from the carabiner on a loop of cord. The cord kicking out at 90 degrees is the hoist line.

IMG_7286 (1).jpg

200 lbs hoisted 9-10 feet in the air and laterally clear of any other trees. Get you a burly stick, wrap the cord around it about 10 times and pull. One strong person can manage 200 lbs. Its of course easier with 2 people, but one person can do it.
I wouldn't recommend setting this up in the dark. Its also going to take longer to get this set up and get the kinks worked out than you think, but your meat is now free hanging and secure while you are in the process of your pack out.
 
Last edited:

taskswap

WKR
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Messages
561
I'm in the "never had a problem" category. It really helps if you buy the add-on bear tag - doing that greatly reduces your chances of seeing them. :p On a more serious note, a bear will take an easy meal if it can. We always hang our bags at least 50' from the carcass to be safe.

That being said, this looks like a very interesting pulley. It's insanely light. I'm not completely clear how that ball-bearing lets the line spool freely over it without any pinching but I might get a pair just to play with.

Where I hunt I've done pretty well with just a 10' length of bank line. I tie 3x "alpine butterfly" loops about a foot apart, and tie it around a tree. I can hang my game bags about 5' off the ground easily that way and what it does for me is keep them out of the dirt, in the shade (north side of the tree) and keeps the coyotes from getting to it. I haven't had a problem with coyotes either, but a friend has, and this only takes 5 minutes to do so why not?

It also makes them easier to see if a friend is en route to help with a pack-out. The way our group runs, everyone hunts til legal light ends, and pack-out help happens at night, so getting the reflective tags on the game bags up to eye level helps them find them more easily.
 
OP
P

Poser

WKR
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
5,711
Location
Durango CO
I'm in the "never had a problem" category. It really helps if you buy the add-on bear tag - doing that greatly reduces your chances of seeing them. :p On a more serious note, a bear will take an easy meal if it can. We always hang our bags at least 50' from the carcass to be safe.

That being said, this looks like a very interesting pulley. It's insanely light. I'm not completely clear how that ball-bearing lets the line spool freely over it without any pinching but I might get a pair just to play with.

Where I hunt I've done pretty well with just a 10' length of bank line. I tie 3x "alpine butterfly" loops about a foot apart, and tie it around a tree. I can hang my game bags about 5' off the ground easily that way and what it does for me is keep them out of the dirt, in the shade (north side of the tree) and keeps the coyotes from getting to it. I haven't had a problem with coyotes either, but a friend has, and this only takes 5 minutes to do so why not?

It also makes them easier to see if a friend is en route to help with a pack-out. The way our group runs, everyone hunts til legal light ends, and pack-out help happens at night, so getting the reflective tags on the game bags up to eye level helps them find them more easily.

Those pulleys can also be used to hoist an animal out from under deadfall or secure a carcass on a steep slope. -massively useful and, for the weight, no reason not to always have 2-3 available + some cord.
 

TaperPin

WKR
Joined
Jul 12, 2023
Messages
3,763
I should have taken better pics of this system, but I did not.

When it comes to properly securing meat in the backcountry, I find most hunter attitudes to be rather cavalier, usually along the lines of "I don't hang my meat in a predator proof manner and I've never had a problem." Well, I've had a problem before and lost a full game bag of elk meat to a bear while I was 3 hours down the mountain. In the past, I have attempted to hang my meat the same way I hang food with 2 cords, one of which is running through a carabiner. The problem you run into is there is simply too much friction to hoist more than about 50 lbs to at least 8 feet off the ground.

Once these Wiser precision pulleys became available, I knew this system could now become a reality in the backcountry.

The idea on paper:

View attachment 781226
Seems simple enough in concept. I've even done this hauling heavy loads of gear for big wall climbing on faces such as El Cap and Half Dome in Yosemite, however, there is a fleet of specialized equipment for such hauling, you're using 10 mm rope which is much easier to work with and bolts for your anchors.

When it comes to setting up this system using trees, you have a few problems to consider.
1. Rope stretch in the system
2. Lightweight cord that is strong enough to handle load up to 250# in a geared fashion
3. Sufficiently strong trees with little flex under this kind of tension

What do you need?
Two 60 feet sections of 7/64 Amsteel cord
One 120 foot section of 7/64 Amsteel cord
3 Wiser Precision pulleys

The test on this cord is around 1500 lbs

Your two 60 footers will be your cross section ropes. You'll toss these over tree limbs and then tension them laterally. They won't be limited by the strength of the limb rather the lateral strength of the tree. In order to account for stretch, you'll need to get these high, definitely North of 15 feet up. Around 20 feet is going to be ideal. 20 feet up, 20 feet down is 40 feet. You have 60 foot cord to allow for the lateral expansion and room to tie off. 50 feet of cord probably won't be enough.

For your geared haul line, you need a single long section of cord that can go up and down the vertical length of your setup 3 times and still have room to hoist and tie off. Tying multiple pieces of cord together will not work since you cannot pass knots through the pulleys. 100 feet minimum, 120 feet is better.


View attachment 781229

Pulley and tie off at the game bags.

View attachment 781230
The 2 lateral lines equalized with a figure 8 knot on a bite, carabiner at the loop below the figure 8 and 2 Wiser Precision pulleys hanging from the carabiner on a loop of cord. The cord kicking out at 90 degrees is the hoist line.

View attachment 781231

200 lbs hoisted 9-10 feet in the air and laterally clear of any other trees. Get you a burly stick, wrap the cord around it about 10 times and pull. One strong person can manage 200 lbs. Its of course easier with 2 people, but one person can do it.
I wouldn't recommend setting this up in the dark. Its also going to take longer to get this set up and get the kinks worked out than you think, but your meat is now free hanging and secure while you are in the process of your pack out.
Those look like great little pulleys.
 

limpet

FNG
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
75
Location
Humboldt Co, California
https://www.westmarine.com/ronstan-series-15-triple-block-18454421.html
https://www.westmarine.com/ronstan-series-15-triple-block-with-becket-18454439.html
Having some mechanical advantage and reducing friction makes getting stuff in the air way easier. I’ve started using these triple blocks to hoist deer to make processing easier on my back and to hoist stuff up in trees. They’re a little heavier than the wiser’s but give more mechanical advantage. B6BB3424-4B87-4F8D-804A-AF2505E8E458.jpeg

Added a pic of the blocks in use. My girlfriend was able to lift him up without much trouble maybe 20 pounds of downward force.
 
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Smokeslider

Lil-Rokslider
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Dec 17, 2018
Messages
181
Location
OR
The pulleys are very sensitive to the cord you use, usual Paracord won't work well. Glad the OP found something that works.
 
Last edited:

MattiG

FNG
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Messages
62
Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread. I just wanted to add that an arborist's throw weight and throw line could be a good way to help set working lines as high as you want.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk
 

Mikido

WKR
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
870
Bought a set of 4, along with 2.3
Dyneema “bear line” from Lawson equipment.

Dead weight 34lbs
Live weight 40lbs (me lifting the bucket by hand straight up)

1 pulley 55lbs
2 pulley 33lbs
3 pulley 29lbs
4 pulley 26 lbs

I might be measuring this incorrectly, but it seems there’s a lot of friction loss.

Thoughts?

IMG_5591.jpeg
 
OP
P

Poser

WKR
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
5,711
Location
Durango CO
Bought a set of 4, along with 2.3
Dyneema “bear line” from Lawson equipment.

Dead weight 34lbs
Live weight 40lbs (me lifting the bucket by hand straight up)

1 pulley 55lbs
2 pulley 33lbs
3 pulley 29lbs
4 pulley 26 lbs

I might be measuring this incorrectly, but it seems there’s a lot of friction loss.

Thoughts?

View attachment 802188

Length of the gear ratio would be a factor here, right? The more more cord length, the more leverage.
Try this same experiment with the same weight from, say, 10 feet off the ground.
 
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
930
I went with a UL ronstand pulley, the reports of added friction and trouble with small cordage made me hesitant to get the pinch pulleys. I haven’t had much a need to use the ronstands yet but they are very lightweight and roll extremely smoothly with any cordage I have used. I think I saw someone else here recommend them a while back.


 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,555
Location
Bozeman, MT
The pulleys are very sensitive to the cord you use, usual Paracord won't work well. Glad the OP found something that works. If someone wants to try a few of these out, let me know via DM. I'll send ya some for cheap.

DMd you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

taskswap

WKR
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Messages
561
When you talk about "dead weight", friction, etc, how are you measuring this?

Friction only applies to dynamic loads. You would have to be actively pulling the rope for it to matter. Once you stop, it's a purely static load and the "weight" on each line segment isn't affected by it.

You have to be careful how you arrange pulleys because some setups that seem like they should have an advantage can seem like they don't depending on where you measure from. Here's a good calculator with a few diagrams that illustrate this.


1733535334444-png.802407
 

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Mikido

WKR
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
870
When you talk about "dead weight", friction, etc, how are you measuring this?

Friction only applies to dynamic loads. You would have to be actively pulling the rope for it to matter. Once you stop, it's a purely static load and the "weight" on each line segment isn't affected by it.

You have to be careful how you arrange pulleys because some setups that seem like they should have an advantage can seem like they don't depending on where you measure from. Here's a good calculator with a few diagrams that illustrate this.


1733535334444-png.802407

The loads I listed are dynamic.
 

Mikido

WKR
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
870
Length of the gear ratio would be a factor here, right? The more more cord length, the more leverage.
Try this same experiment with the same weight from, say, 10 feet off the ground.

At 10ft AFF negligible difference. I’m going to try some of the other pulleys listed
 

COJoe

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Nov 22, 2023
Messages
280
Location
Southern Colorado
I bought the pinch pulleys two years ago but still haven't figured how I am going to use them yet. I bought the red 7/64 dyneema from them too to make it lighter. I keep promising myself to rig it up in my big pine tree in my yard. We struggled hoisting our game bags three years ago at 1:00 am, lol. Once I get it rigged up properly I'll take pictures of it and try with sand bags of various weight.
 

RWT

WKR
Joined
Jul 4, 2022
Messages
390
I’ve seen a similar system using chain links as the pulleys. I’ll see if I. Can find the thread.
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
510
Location
Wyoming
I use a pulley set to hoist paniers into bear hangs, and love it. I'm lost on dynamic loads vs. static loads and friction losses, but agree they are important considerations.

A more important consideration is the diameter of the line you use to hoist it. Thin parachute cord will not work well - essentially, you'll not be able to throw a loop in it to actually get it tied without nearly cutting your fingers off if the hang is more than probably 40-50 lbs. I always bring some 1/4" or greater nylon rope for this
 

Grant K

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Sep 19, 2017
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Location
Ridgway, CO
At 10ft AFF negligible difference. I’m going to try some of the other pulleys listed
length of the cord isn't going to change mechanical advantage in any meaningful way, if anything a longer cord with any stretch is going to magnify inefficiency. your numbers are about exactly what I'd expect from the Pynch pullys, just looking at the design that isn't an efficient pully at all, about 62% efficient from your numbers, and that lack of efficiency is compounded by the number of them, the more you add the less efficient the whole system is...

most of the tiny pulleys are sheave designs that are lucky to get to 60 percent efficiency, it's probably lighter overall to bring two bigger 90 percent efficient pulleys and go with a 2:1, theoretically, you would end up with an input of 24lbs to move your 40 lb bucket, and need 2/3 the amount of rope...
 
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