270 v 7mm-08 for young hunter

[Spoonbill]

I do have suppressors but would like him to just learn. I think I make things too easy. I learned from friends the hard way and it caused me to learn the process.
He is right in the middle of a compact and regular rifle. He has also grown 2.5” since July. I have changed the draw length on his bow 3 times in the same time frame. So, Tikka, Remington, Howa and Bergara are tops to look at. Although I also like the CVA Scout.
Thanks everybody for all the info and thoughts!

I would absolutely use a suppressor if for no other reason than to save your son’s hearing. I shot a lot without ear plugs in as it was commonly accepted to not always use them now I am in my mid 30s and partly deaf.
Another benefit to suppressors is that it helps reduce recoil and flinching from muzzle blasts. Better to learn the right way than “the hard way”.

 

[eric1115]

Father of 6 here, oldest few are 14, 11, 9, 7.

Oldest started with a 7mm-08. That was a mistake, and I've learned a ton in the 5 years since we got him that. .223 T3x compact is in the safe for his Christmas present, we'll sell the Ruger 7mm-08 to help make up the cost difference. He's 100% on board since reading the .223 thread.

Got a Howa Mini in 6 ARC that the 11yo used this year (.223 AR last year with 77TMK), worked awesome but needed quite a bit of work to get to where I wanted it). Bare muzzle it's very good. Suppressed it's phenomenal.

9yo probably will either use the AR for LOP reasons, or share the Howa with his sister next year. I have zero hesitation shooting a deer or elk inside 400 with either one.

I repeat, 40+ grains of powder and 120+ grain bullet with a 100 lb kid is a mistake. Think how hard of a slap in the face it would take to phase you. Now imagine your kid receiving that same slap. How are they gonna do?

 

[hereinaz]

Father of 6 here, oldest few are 14, 11, 9, 7.

Oldest started with a 7mm-08. That was a mistake, and I've learned a ton in the 5 years since we got him that. .223 T3x compact is in the safe for his Christmas present, we'll sell the Ruger 7mm-08 to help make up the cost difference. He's 100% on board since reading the .223 thread.

Got a Howa Mini in 6 ARC that the 11yo used this year (.223 AR last year with 77TMK), worked awesome but needed quite a bit of work to get to where I wanted it). Bare muzzle it's very good. Suppressed it's phenomenal.

9yo probably will either use the AR for LOP reasons, or share the Howa with his sister next year. I have zero hesitation shooting a deer or elk inside 400 with either one.

I repeat, 40+ grains of powder and 120+ grain bullet with a 100 lb kid is a mistake. Think how hard of a slap in the face it would take to phase you. Now imagine your kid receiving that same slap. How are they gonna do?

I love a chassis with adjustable AR buttstock on my rifle I use with other shooters.

Fit is huge to comfort and shootability.

The LSS with a simple 5 position stock is nice.

 

[eric1115]

Father of 6 here, oldest few are 14, 11, 9, 7.

Oldest started with a 7mm-08. That was a mistake, and I've learned a ton in the 5 years since we got him that. .223 T3x compact is in the safe for his Christmas present, we'll sell the Ruger 7mm-08 to help make up the cost difference. He's 100% on board since reading the .223 thread.

Got a Howa Mini in 6 ARC that the 11yo used this year (.223 AR last year with 77TMK), worked awesome but needed quite a bit of work to get to where I wanted it). Bare muzzle it's very good. Suppressed it's phenomenal.

9yo probably will either use the AR for LOP reasons, or share the Howa with his sister next year. I have zero hesitation shooting a deer or elk inside 400 with either one.

I repeat, 40+ grains of powder and 120+ grain bullet with a 100 lb kid is a mistake. Think how hard of a slap in the face it would take to phase you. Now imagine your kid receiving that same slap. How are they gonna do?

Also, a lot of his friends have gotten started on 6.5CM's and I would say nearly all of them have ended up with bad habits to unlearn, or gotten muzzle brakes AND bad habits to unlearn. He's shot a lot more .223 than he has 7mm-08, so that's minimized his bad habits but they are there if he shoots it too much.

 

[miller3483]

Father of 6 here, oldest few are 14, 11, 9, 7.

Oldest started with a 7mm-08. That was a mistake, and I've learned a ton in the 5 years since we got him that. .223 T3x compact is in the safe for his Christmas present, we'll sell the Ruger 7mm-08 to help make up the cost difference. He's 100% on board since reading the .223 thread.

Got a Howa Mini in 6 ARC that the 11yo used this year (.223 AR last year with 77TMK), worked awesome but needed quite a bit of work to get to where I wanted it). Bare muzzle it's very good. Suppressed it's phenomenal.

9yo probably will either use the AR for LOP reasons, or share the Howa with his sister next year. I have zero hesitation shooting a deer or elk inside 400 with either one.

I repeat, 40+ grains of powder and 120+ grain bullet with a 100 lb kid is a mistake. Think how hard of a slap in the face it would take to phase you. Now imagine your kid receiving that same slap. How are they gonna do?

This is almost an exact copy of my experience with my oldest and a lightweight 7mm-08. 223 with optimized bullets is the way I’m going now.

 

[eric1115]

This is almost an exact copy of my experience with my oldest and a lightweight 7mm-08. 223 with optimized bullets is the way I’m going now.

It's funny how often you hear some version of this. .308ish case capacity is not the way for kids, especially pre-teen. 6mmCM or .243 may be borderline, especially if you handload and/or are suppressed and/or are talking about teenagers.

There's a huge difference, I've found, between "he handles the recoil pretty well" and "optimal for building a good foundation as a rifleman".

Edit to add:
In case it wasn't evident in my first post, I would strongly recommend, based on learning from my own mistakes, neither the 7mm-08 or .270.

6.5 Grendel, 6mmCM/.243win at absolute most, .223 or 6mm ARC strongly preferred. Be well under 150 grains of bullet and powder combined, under 130 is definitely better.

 

[The Guide]

It's funny how often you hear some version of this. .308ish case capacity is not the way for kids, especially pre-teen. 6mmCM or .243 may be borderline, especially if you handload and/or are talking about teenagers.

There's a huge difference, I've found, between "he handles the recoil pretty well" and "optimal for building a good foundation as a rifleman".

I listened to my daughter when trying to move her up to a 243 from a 6.5 Grendel. She told me after 2 shots that it hurts to shoot that gun (size appropriate stock and scope) and she didn't want to shoot it anymore. That was just with some 75 grain VMax rounds not even full load 100 grain ammo. We went back to the Grendel and she was good. Moved her to a braked 6CM the next year which she really liked and then to a Tikka in 6.5CM the following year with reduced recoil loads. She panic striken with the thought of using full power loads in her 6.5CM due to her experience with the 243 three years earlier. I was lucky enough to find some HSM 140 grain reduced recoil loads that we named the "Pumpkin Spice" ammo since it had an orange tip. We got to joke about it and she got to shoot and kill some deer with it. Then we moved her to a 120CX Hornady Outfitter round and they printed really well and what seemed to me less recoil that the actual reduced recoil loads. She has taken a pile of deer (damage hunt one winter), one good buck mule deer, and an antelope with those 120CX and they have worked well at CM speeds.

Listen to your kids and don't push them to shoot a larger caliber than they are comfortable with.

Jay

 

[miller3483]

It's funny how often you hear some version of this. .308ish case capacity is not the way for kids, especially pre-teen. 6mmCM or .243 may be borderline, especially if you handload and/or are suppressed and/or are talking about teenagers.

There's a huge difference, I've found, between "he handles the recoil pretty well" and "optimal for building a good foundation as a rifleman".

Edit to add:
In case it wasn't evident in my first post, I would strongly recommend, based on learning from my own mistakes, neither the 7mm-08 or .270.

6.5 Grendel, 6mmCM/.243win at absolute most, .223 or 6mm ARC strongly preferred. Be well under 150 grains of bullet and powder combined, under 130 is definitely better.

That’s been my experience as well. The more I learn and shoot, the more I move to lesser recoiling cartridges. My next two kids will learn on suppressed 223’s.

 

[Pharmseller]

If the choice remains 270 vs 7mm-08, go 7mm-08.

I started my boy with the Mighty -08 when he was 11. He handled the recoil just fine.





P

 

[CMF]

I have no biase for the 6.5cm, and haven't owned one yet, but if I was buying a new youth rifle, that's what I'd go with.
We currently have .270 and .243, and the .270 doesn't kick bad with the 120grn lite recoil, but I can't find them anymore.
The 6.5 has a big range of grain weights and is usually on the shelf the same or more than the others.
You could let em shoot the lite 100/105 grn for practice and then throw in heavier for a hunt. That is usually what try to do with my kids. My 10yo is shooting 130's in a 270 in prep for elk, but we'll shoot 145 eld-x when we head to NM in a couple weeks. We're also shooting off the BOG deathgrip which weighs 8lbs. and helps hold the gun and add weight to reduce recoil.

 

[atmat]

Food for thought: for the price and availability of some caliber ammo choices, you can buy a Stainless Tikka 223, SWFA 6x, and still breakeven by 1000-1200 rounds. And your kids will enjoy shooting a 223, while building much better skills.

People talk about rifles and scopes like they’re expensive; but the reality is that it’s the ammo that costs money if you’re actually shooting in any volume.

Edit: I’ll add that the breakeven is MUCH lower if your alternative is a barrel-churning caliber, as you may be at or approaching a barrel replacement by 1000-1200 rounds.

 

[SC HUNTER]

My first rifle that was mine was a 270 at 12 and it beat me to death! I developed a flinch without a doubt and it haunted me for years. I got a 243 later on at about 16 and enjoyed shooting it much more. Then I went to a 7mm-08 at about 19 years old and killed a PILE of animals with it.

I've owned everything from a 22 hornet to 7mm STW and my main rifle now at 33 years old is a suppressed 6.5 CM. My oldest kid shoots a 6.5 and occasionally a 308 but he's tougher than he is smart by a long shot and he's a damn genius in school. The middle kid shoots my 6.5 a good bit at 11 years old off a bog pod deathgrip. I would NEVER buy my 11 year old a 270 to shoot, not a chance in hell. It's not about making him learn because all he'll learn is to flinch and not want to shoot it.

If it's possible get a ruger american or savage axis in 223 to let him shoot as much as possible and develop good trigger discipline and mechanics. As far as big game rifle, I'm not a 6.5 fan boy by any means, I'd pick a 6.5 creedmoor suppressed for him. They simply just kill animals without issue. I'd shoot an elk with mine and a barnes or accubond no question about it.

A 100 grain barnes ttsx out of that creedmoor is smoking and hits deer and hogs like a bolt of lightning.

*again I am not a fan boy to 6.5CM I only have one because I got it one a trade and started shooting it then bought 2 more.*

 

[camelcluch]

Great info here. Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas.

 

[slvrslngr]

Of the 2 you listed, I’d go with the 7-08 w/ 120gr. Ballistic Tips. If you’re open to other options, I’d take a look at the 6.5 Grendel and the 6 Creed. Or if you handload, the 250 Savage.

 

[bojangles808]

Of those two 7mm 08. but I'm going 223 then 6.5 with my son

 

[jzeblaz]

I just worked through this with my nephew, who is 13 and going on his first big game hunt this fall. I have a lot of cartridges to choose from and I initially though the 6.5 Grendel would be the jam, but it is a big and heavy 20" barrel and he didn't care for it. He loved my 7mm-08 and I worked up some silly accurate 120 Hammer Hunters for it. My wife was hunting with the 270 with 129 LRX and it hammers, but recoil is noticeably more stout.

To do it all again, I'd have picked up a svelte .223 (not an AR) and some 70-80 grain monos and he'd have loved that. I'll probably still do that for higher volume practice as he doesn't want to shoot the 7-08 for very long.