2500 Gas or diesel ...

[colersu22]

Seems like a lot of hate for gear heads. I had an 04 F350 with the 6.0 and even though it is the most hated diesel I still miss it now that I'm driving an 08 ram 1500. My 1500 gets 12-14 mpg all stock except for a K&N air I take. My old F350 on the other hand got 20-22 consistently. I had a turbo off an 07 6.0, 100hp injectors, EGR delete, straight pipe exhaust, upgraded fuel system, billet HPOP, upgraded FICM head studs and custom tunes. I do agree that people blowing smoke look like asshats too but my truck wouldn't blow smoke unless I really slapped the throttle. After going back to a gas truck I miss all the power and mileage I had with the diesel. My next truck will be cummins so I can start tinkering with a vehicle again.

 

[Beendare]

I've owned just about every Manufacterer- Ford, Chevy, Toyota....and just about every motor they all made either in my business or personal, my take;

It depends on what you are towing. Big difference between a 4,000# load and a 10,000# load. he lighter duty F150, toyota Tundra gas rigs are fine for the light trailers [though they benefit from added air bags] they are way too little truck for the big trailers. The only advantage with the diesels towing the lighter trailers is torque and a little better feel.

Big trailers I would go heavy 3/4 ton or really lean toward the one ton chassie....these are just built better for that application. The diesels or the Ford V10 are about the same.....money wise overall you come out on top with the V10 gas motor...torque is a little better with the diesel.

There used to be a $$$ savings on the diesels when fuel was 20% cheaper and they got better mileage. Now the additional cost for the motor, fuel being the same or more in many places....new diesels don't get that much better mileage over gas......and repair costs for diesels being much more....the difference between diesel and gas narrows.

That said, the newer small diesel motors hitting the market could be a game changer for the avg truck buyer.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Seems like a lot of hate for gear heads. I had an 04 F350 with the 6.0 and even though it is the most hated diesel I still miss it now that I'm driving an 08 ram 1500. My 1500 gets 12-14 mpg all stock except for a K&N air I take. My old F350 on the other hand got 20-22 consistently. I had a turbo off an 07 6.0, 100hp injectors, EGR delete, straight pipe exhaust, upgraded fuel system, billet HPOP, upgraded FICM head studs and custom tunes. I do agree that people blowing smoke look like asshats too but my truck wouldn't blow smoke unless I really slapped the throttle. After going back to a gas truck I miss all the power and mileage I had with the diesel. My next truck will be cummins so I can start tinkering with a vehicle again.

I don't hate gearheads, but I do hate sticking money into a $60,000 pickup when it was supposed to be an upgrade. If some teen-bop wants to buy a 1 ton instead of mortgage a home, jack it up, after market the heck out of it and never pull more than a dirtbike I could care less. To each their own.... my issue is repairs. I hate them. I hate the thought of $60-70k on a new pick up and then having to do all this work and programing to get it to run correctly. That to me is asinine.

The 6.0 is what it is, or was what it was..... it had more snap than any of my 7.3's, was the 1st diesel I had that I could carry on a normal conversation with my passenger without yelling, got good mileage, etc... After working with 3/4's and up for the last 20+ years when I get into a 1/2 ton now it makes me want to retire, get a pair of sunglasses that fit over my eye glasses and yell at kids for walking on my lawn. These new 1/2ers are so dang comfortable I can't believe it. But I can't retire yet so I'll continue to whine about vehicle repairs

 

[Ironmerganser]

If I was in your shoes.....I would find the best 2004-2005 6.0 Ford or Dodge Cummins you can find. Take it to a reputable diesel mechanic and have them "revive" the motor to better than new....as in "deletes". Then use the rest to spruce up the interior and exterior and you will have a truck that will last the rest of your life.....then some.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

If I was in your shoes.....I would find the best 2004-2005 6.0 Ford or Dodge Cummins you can find. Take it to a reputable diesel mechanic and have them "revive" the motor to better than new....as in "deletes". Then use the rest to spruce up the interior and exterior and you will have a truck that will last the rest of your life.....then some.

the early versions of the 6.0 were the worst so I've been told.

Most guys I know that have bulletproofed a 6.0 or 6.4 have had immense remorse shortly after. My latest buddy (sorry son of a....) scored a decent deal on a 2005 6.0 with 120xxx. Previous owner was an over the road trucker and claimed to have changed filters and oil to a tee. He bought it knowing he'd be bulletproofing it. Long story short, the truck was somewhere around $12k (crew cab, lariat, leather, etc...) and after it was said and done had roughly 9,000 into bulletproofing, actually I think it was a touch over 9K. $21,000 would have gotten him one helluva gasser with probably money left over (all his truck does is wear a 9'2" hinicker V-snowplow in winter). Shortly after his bulletproofing he was on his way home from Florida and 2 injectors went, needing replacing.... It's called bulletproofing but they're still vehicles. Morale of the story, he took every measure possible to ensure that trucks longevity, and in the end consider what the overall lump sum could have gotten someone who doesn't really need the diesel aspect.

All the work was done by a very prominent mechanic, well known on diesel forums (not my guy but even I had heard of this guys "bulletproofing"). Despite our warnings and cautions he still bought it and has paid dearly, oh yea and his truck was out of commission for about 7 weeks total.

 

[Daniel_M]

Early 6.0's definitely had their share of head gasket/HPOP issues. You can spend $5-6000 to "bullet proof" them by a reputable mechanic. Cummins are pretty solid. Duramax you'll be into injectors when you get close to 150K miles, perhaps sooner. Would definitely recommend a lift pump. The newer LML's could use an injector pump upgrade.

 

[welpro222]

I have a hard time seeing people buy a $60k new truck then dump another $10k in upgrades into? But, if you have the cash its your choice. I like my $1100 83 k20 diesel with about $2k in upgrades, I have cheaper insurance and no payment. Not to mention I still get 19mpg on freeway (yes I have kept track of it). Yeah I don't get as many looks and don't have the luxury interior, money is better spent on gear

 

[Daniel_M]

No different than the consumer market you find here on Rokslide. $800 packs, $12-3000 rifles, $5000 spotters. Everyone has their own niche they like. Better than a drinking problem I always say!

 

[missjordan]

If your towing a lot, then the diesel may be worth it. But since your only doing 12 trips a year or so, it's probably worth pulling the passes at semi-turtle speed. If your buying a newer diesel that's 5 years or newer you shouldn't have many maintenance costs. If you have something major go out the warranty should pick up the costs of the repair


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[colersu22]

I think the big cost of diesels is the labor cost, I do all my own work on my vehicles but it does help to have a buddy with a lift to pull the cab on a 6.0 to replace the head gaskets and head studs. The ford dealer wanted almost 4K to replace the EGR valve and cooler, I bought a 200 sinister EGR delete kit and 3 hours later I was up and running again. When I did my injectors I pulled them and sent them in to be rebuilt and bored to 100hp sticks and it was only 1100 or so. With all the upgrades and 20mpg I also had a 8" lift and 37's, I got the best mileage with the 130hp custom tune.

 

[bridgerbenson]

Ive been in the same boat, and been following this thread. I have an 06 dodge cummins with 230,ooo miles on it I've just put $6200 into in the last couple weeks. Rear main seal, leaking transmission seal, rotors, front tie rods, calipers, ball joints, and injectors. It was either fix and hope for another 1-200,000 miles out of it, or sell for a little bit of nothing and end up back in debt for a different rig. After seeing pickups with over 100,000 miles still being listed for 40g, I decided to keep fixing. Would rather have a gas, but as a contractor actually pull pretty heavy loads fairly often.

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[fingers]

I can totally relate to this thread. I've been driving Dodge Cummins trucks since 07' and am pretty happy but I moved to Utah recently and it's liked I stepped back in time 5-10 years. Asshats everywhere smoking out intersections. So far behind the times. It makes me feel strange. Oh well. I really like my 06' with a 6 speed. I've spent lots of money putting a suspension system in and it still tows my trailer well. I don't know what I'd do if I was buying new. Being an engineer I geek out on diesels but the added expense of the new emmissons are a real consideration. I'd look hard at a gas 3/4 ton. Money no object then sure, buy new and trade it out every time the warranty is up. But that's just not realistic to me.

 

[nflesher]

I just picked up a 2500 Ram Cummins 2016. I really like it. I'm waiting for the 30K warranty to come up then I am ripping everything that has to do with the emissions off the truck.

It rides great, has great clearance, and just the right amount of features inside the truck. Empty highway mileage is around 19MPG. I get my diesel in TN a lot and I get it for around 1.85/gallon right now. It holds 30 gallons plus my drag up tank holds 75 gallons too.

12 Quarts of Royal purple every 20K miles with a wix filter and I am good to go. No problems yet.


I love the truck. But it is so choked back that it lacks a lot of the get up and go that I was used to.


Before this truck I had a 2011 Ram hemi JBA stainless headers, exhaust, cola air intake, diablosport programmer ect ect...

That truck would flat out smoke this cummins. I mean the get up and go was unreal. I never drove a gas truck with more power.

Now I have a cummins....its got the torque but I think when I gut the emissions off of it I am going to be a lot happier and dont even get me started on the DEF fluid... how stupid.

BINGO...EFI live will amaze you!

No matter how you shake it, a diesel won't make your dick any bigger, not matter what they tell ya!
Out-think the boneheads and make your wallet happy by buying an appropriate gas rig.

Not sure where this mind-set come from or any reason to correlate the two, but neither will looking at diesel guys like your dick is larger.

Are you aware that your new truck with the cummins has the 0bd2 emissions system on it just like cars do?? Good luck trying to get rid of the emission system on it.

I would suggest doing some research......

If I was in your shoes.....I would find the best 2004-2005 6.0 Ford or Dodge Cummins you can find. Take it to a reputable diesel mechanic and have them "revive" the motor to better than new....as in "deletes". Then use the rest to spruce up the interior and exterior and you will have a truck that will last the rest of your life.....then some.

Not a bad idea, but the problem there is damage can be done that you can't see and will cost you dearly. If someone has ran a tuned truck hard and burnt a pinhole in a piston, spun a bearing, burnt up some or all the valves which 6.4 ford's did, etc, and put it for sell and you buy it, you will be replacing the engine or rebuilding with better components. All it takes is putting stock components back in place and telling you it was garage kept and you never went over half throttle. If you know the history of a truck because it was a close friend or relative, then this would be solid advice.

Early 6.0's definitely had their share of head gasket/HPOP issues. You can spend $5-6000 to "bullet proof" them by a reputable mechanic. Cummins are pretty solid. Duramax you'll be into injectors when you get close to 150K miles, perhaps sooner. Would definitely recommend a lift pump. The newer LML's could use an injector pump upgrade.

The CP4 was a total disaster for a lot of guys, but the LML engine is stout and will go a long ways if maintained. A lift pump from Airdog will help as well.

I think things may have got a little off course for the OP, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a diesel truck. Like my previous post stated, most of the problems arise because people let them idle and idle and idle and do not run them hard. The new diesels need to be run hard! The truck is meant to work. Most guys bring problems on themselves like my previous post stated. 8" lift 37" tires and a heavy 200 HP EFI live tune (and apparently booster seats, a small penis, flatbill hats and stickers) and they scorch the tranny clutches or break input shafts, send rods through the oil pan or out the block, burn the heads completely off, melt turbos down, the list goes on. Like I said, there is no fix for stupidity, but money helps. Towing 12 times a year may be once a month or every weekend all summer, just depends on how you cut the cake. I have been in the diesel performance scene for sometime and will never go back to a gas if I can help it. I just crave the power and torque that it has. Don't let the horror stories bug you. If you buy any of the big three, drive it and maintain it you will be happy you have it when it comes time to tow.

 

[maninthemaze]

I love my '03 Duramax. I've only put 217,000 miles on it, though.

I'm in the same boat as you. I love my '03 Cummins but only have 310,000 miles on it. I'll let you guys now if I still like it when it hit 500,000.

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[Clarktar]

Happy with my 2000 cummins but I only have 330,000 miles...

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[Ironmerganser]

I have had a 2005 6.0 that I put 135K on before getting rid of and I currently have a 2008 6.4 that just turned over 105k. Both were/are upgraded. Not sure if I am lucky or what, but on the 6.0 on issue I had was the alternator go out. On the 6.4.....had to replace the radiator. I take damn good care of my trucks though and NEVER race/put my foot in it.

You can have issues/problems with diesels, gassers, Fords, Dodges, etc. Problems with vehicles are like airplanes......you only hear about it when something bad happens.

 

[kicker338]

Hi nflesher can't say I've did a lot of research on diesel pickups, they are not trucks they are pickups with a diesel motor, but after
working on diesel rigs both off highway and class 8 trucks for 30yrs. I've seen a lot of changes. 1999-2000 I worked at a kenworth
dealership and diesels then were not too bad, just had 1 computer, no cats and def. The las 15yrs. were wrenching for a warehouse
company, we ran freightliners and kw's, t800's with both detroits and cummins. With that said, BOY HAVE THINGS CHGD.

 

[kicker338]

To finish this post THINGS HAVE CHGD. the industry wen from obd1 systems, which were ezy to bypass because the obd1 had no way
of knowing what you did to the obd2 system which double checks every part of the emission system. With the oobd2 system all info is fed to the ecm and if any thing doesn't work right including removel of items you get a check engine light and poss limp mode. The only poss
way around this that I lnow of would a new totally reprogramed ecm for the engine but seeing as the engine, trans, and chassis
computers all talk to each other don't know if that would work

 

[wapitibob]

I just turned 382,000 on my stock daily driver '99 7.3 on the way back from Wyoming. No updates, not even a flatty and 35's. Long story short, learn to drive a diesel and they'll last a long time, trouble free.

 

[colersu22]

To finish this post THINGS HAVE CHGD. the industry wen from obd1 systems, which were ezy to bypass because the obd1 had no way
of knowing what you did to the obd2 system which double checks every part of the emission system. With the oobd2 system all info is fed to the ecm and if any thing doesn't work right including removel of items you get a check engine light and poss limp mode. The only poss
way around this that I lnow of would a new totally reprogramed ecm for the engine but seeing as the engine, trans, and chassis
computers all talk to each other don't know if that would work

I had the SCT tuner in with custom tunes on my ford 6.0 and you can program all that stuff so you don't have any limp mode problems or CEL's. I am sure other tuners can do it to but I could change shift points and firmness for the tranny and adjust speedo for my 37's. Only thing that sucks was it would take 10-15 min to change from 1 tune to another since it reprograms the ECU.