243win 105 BTHP questions

[Sponxx]

Ok guys, maybe someone can help me with this conundrum.
I have a 243Win, XCaliber barrel, has maybe seen 300 shots, all reloads with 95gr BTs and 7828.
Shoots them well at 3000fps and max COAL 2.74" (which is "kissing" lands, per my inexperienced measurements).
I shortened the COAL a bit, as I had a bullet pull out once, still great accuracy

My question is now trying to load 105 BTHP. They are ehaviner and longer, and I would expected the COAL to be longer even if the distance to lands/kissing was the same.
I tried the sharpie trick yesterday, with FL sized case (so it wasn't interfering with feel of bulet engagement). Loaded long, planning on shortening COAL until at or slighr off lands (per Formidilosus recs https://rokslide.com/fPpainless-load-development )
Felt bullet engage lands, got a circle around bullet (so no "lands" marks) and COAL was 2.74 same as the 95gr BTs with what I expect to be a longer bullet. That sits the boattail deeper in the case and below shoulder-case junction.
While I don't have a problem loading like that I am very curious on what may be going on.
Got some pics, of the extracted bullet with sharpie markings that I will upload

 

[Sponxx]

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Just get a Hornady tool and modified case. I never had much luck on using a sharpie or smoking a bullet. It is possible for a longer bullet to be loaded shorter. It’s all in the meplat and ogive

 

[Castle Rock]

That is deep into the lands

 

[Sponxx]

Just get a Hornady tool and modified case. I never had much luck on using a sharpie or smoking a bullet. It is possible for a longer bullet to be loaded shorter. It’s all in the meplat and ogive

Yes, that's what I am figuring it out. I will dig up and see if I can find a comparator.

That is deep into the lands

Yep, that's what it seemed, fair resistance when closing bolt. I had speculated that longer sleeker bullet may have had longer COAL.
Seems I am wrong

 

[TaperPin]

I’ve never found a need for the Hornady comparator - it’s not giving a better number than just barely touching the lands, however you will have to change your technique a little.

I use two fired cases.

The first case isn’t resized at all, but the neck is very slightly flattened so a bullet will slide in with finger force. Chamber it and the rifling will push the bullet down - this gives a rough starting point.

The second case is resized but the die is unscrewed a full turn so the shoulder isn’t set back at all. Seat the bullet used in step one a few thou long, smoke the bullet. Chamber it and if there are rifling marks all around, reduce the length a few thou at a time smoking each time until some of the rifling marks are barely visible. That point is as accurate as any gizmo.

Smoking the bullet with a candle leaves a thicker layer of black that is easier to see, but sharpie does work as well. The case shoulder needs to be the full length of he chamber and not pushed back at all, or the ejection plunger and force of the extractor clipping over the rim will force the case forward and give a bad reading off by the amount the shoulder is pushed back.

The throat needs to be clean - trying to get meaningful measurements with a throat full of fouling isn’t helping anything.

The craziest comparison between a Hornady gizmo and the method described above, the poor fellow was about to pull his hair out when a smoked bullet set with the Hornady didn’t show any rifling, yet he insisted the Hornady was more accurate. I asked how can the Hornady be giving you a better measurement if the actual bullet isn’t touching the actual lands? It’s very much like those foot measuring gizmos at the boot store - no matter what the gizmo says, your actual foot in an actual boot will 100% give you a better measurement.

 

[Sponxx]

If I can't find my comparator (can't recall if I bought or borrowed one) I am planning on stripping the bolt, seat long and shorten progressively to see where it closes without effort.
Throat doesn't have more than 200 shots, so I presume it is fairly clean.
Despite jamming, as per the pictures, the sized case held the bullet (I use a neck Lee die)

 

[Pickettpuncher]

I’ve never found a need for the Hornady comparator - it’s not giving a better number than just barely touching the lands, however you will have to change your technique a little.

I use two fired cases.

The first case isn’t resized at all, but the neck is very slightly flattened so a bullet will slide in with finger force. Chamber it and the rifling will push the bullet down - this gives a rough starting point.

The second case is resized but the die is unscrewed a full turn so the shoulder isn’t set back at all. Seat the bullet used in step one a few thou long, smoke the bullet. Chamber it and if there are rifling marks all around, reduce the length a few thou at a time smoking each time until some of the rifling marks are barely visible. That point is as accurate as any gizmo.

Smoking the bullet with a candle leaves a thicker layer of black that is easier to see, but sharpie does work as well. The case shoulder needs to be the full length of he chamber and not pushed back at all, or the ejection plunger and force of the extractor clipping over the rim will force the case forward and give a bad reading off by the amount the shoulder is pushed back.

The throat needs to be clean - trying to get meaningful measurements with a throat full of fouling isn’t helping anything.

The craziest comparison between a Hornady gizmo and the method described above, the poor fellow was about to pull his hair out when a smoked bullet set with the Hornady didn’t show any rifling, yet he insisted the Hornady was more accurate. I asked how can the Hornady be giving you a better measurement if the actual bullet isn’t touching the actual lands? It’s very much like those foot measuring gizmos at the boot store - no matter what the gizmo says, your actual foot in an actual boot will 100% give you a better measurement.

Using a modified case with the gauge is far more repeatable than smoking a bullet, or using a sharpie. Use whichever method you have confidence in tho.

 

[TaperPin]

Using a modified case with the gauge is far more repeatable than smoking a bullet, or using a sharpie. Use whichever method you have confidence in tho.

My friends like to buy gadgets and they are used to the Hornady, and it is faster when shooting different bullets. In the end it doesn’t matter if someone is off by a little bit or not - the lands are constantly moving. The nice thing about reloading is everything is testable - if someone thinks a gizmo is better, seat 5 bullets each way at a length that should be touching the lands, and smoke all ten. If the Hornady is spot on there should be nice little faint marks for each land.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

My friends like to buy gadgets and they are used to the Hornady, and it is faster when shooting different bullets. In the end it doesn’t matter if someone is off by a little bit or not - the lands are constantly moving. The nice thing about reloading is everything is testable - if someone thinks a gizmo is better, seat 5 bullets each way at a length that should be touching the lands, and smoke all ten. If the Hornady is spot on there should be nice little faint marks for each land.

I can’t ever see any defects. That’s my issue with the marking of the bullet

 

[SloppyJ]

The 105 with that profile is going to need to be tucked into the case a bit to get it to fit. I think your 95s and 105s aren't touching the lands the same, the 105s are all up in it.

Get the measurement of when it just touches and back it into the case from there for testing.

 

[TaperPin]

I can’t ever see any defects. That’s my issue with the marking of the bullet

That would make it difficult.

 

[Sponxx]

The 105 with that profile is going to need to be tucked into the case a bit to get it to fit. I think your 95s and 105s aren't touching the lands the same, the 105s are all up in it.

Get the measurement of when it just touches and back it into the case from there for testing.

That's what is seems, I had assumed that with the sleeker ogive it would need longer OAL to get to lands, but it seems the other way.
It will seat deeper in the case than the BTs
Need to reassess when I get the chance and find comparator/modified case etc