243 Fury and 243 Fury AI

The Sig Hybrid cases are cool stuff. I’ve been loading 260AI and 308 with it a getting unbelievable velocities.

I’ve run a 140 match burner @ 3236fps in a 24” Brux barrel. 2 weeks ago in Raton I was running the 153.5 LRHT at 3050fps.

In my 20” Tikka .308 I’ve run the 155TMK at 3077 and I am sure it could run faster. I backed it down to 3000fps for my hunting loads.
 
The Sig Hybrid cases are cool stuff. I’ve been loading 260AI and 308 with it a getting unbelievable velocities.

I’ve run a 140 match burner @ 3236fps in a 24” Brux barrel. 2 weeks ago in Raton I was running the 153.5 LRHT at 3050fps.

In my 20” Tikka .308 I’ve run the 155TMK at 3077 and I am sure it could run faster. I backed it down to 3000fps for my hunting loads.
thats super impressive, ive been thinking about doing 260 ai. getting a creedmoor shoulder with the sig brass sucks ass and the increased case capacity would certainly help with some speeds. what powders are you using?
 
Honest question, and I'm not asking to be critical - the numbers you're posting here are fascinating.

I'm not afraid of 80kPSI. What I'm afraid of is 80kPSI in a rifle designed for 65k.

From a metallurgical standpoint - I am not an engineer but I kinda worked in that world for a while and there was a very common rule of thumb that a part or gadget that would fail catastrophically at, say, value X, would likely run forever at value 1/2X and the engineers I worked with would spec things to run at that 'forever' load point but in reality they often exceeded it and always got away with it, until they didn't, which usually occurred after the original engineer had retired and it was someone else's problem. If we apply that to rifle actions we would want to design a rifle action that would hold together up to perhaps 130kPSI in order for it to 'run forever' with 65kPSI ammo. Or, in terms I used to play with a lot, my old Ruger Blackhawk was, per John Linebaugh, good for about 65kPSI before the cylinder failed, so in theory we could run 32kPSI loads in it forever, and when I went through a phase of being enamored with big bore handguns that's what I did. And, yes, I exceeded that a few times, likely pushed it to nearly 40kPSI a very few times, but stopped that because there's nothing I could really do with a handgun at 40kPSI that I couldn't really also do just as well at 23kPSI. But I digress.

So, to apply the above to your project here: If it's true that the Tikka is a true 65kpsi action, then what you're doing is somewhere on a sliding scale between 'run forever' and 'suddenly gernade on you'. It's also possible that the Tikkas have been failure tested and are stronger than I assume. If they'd hold together up to 160kPSI then I'd be fine with the 80kPSI figure, assuming primers held and you don't get gas in your face.

So....either a) the rifle is rated to handle the pressures you're seeing, or b) you're at pressures that won't create instant failures but you're turning the receiver into a consumable with a finite life. My question is, do you know which it is, and if the latter, how many rounds before you cease to trust the receiver and retire it?

I'm not asking to be critical and I'm not asking from the standpoint of looking down my nose like I'm smarter than you. I think the project you're working on is incredibly neat. I'm simply wondering what the long-term implications are for the integrity of your rifle action.
I was curious about this also, so I emailed Zermatt Arms, asking if their actions had a Max Pressure and if the High Pressure rounds such as the .277 Fury and 7mm BC were safe to use in their actions.

Response:

Those cartridges are safe to run in all of our actions. The pressure is being contained by the case so as long as you're running factory ammunition, you're good to go.

The actions have been stress tested with these cartridges and show no signs of failure or extreme stress after 50k rounds.

Thank you,

Ray Heusinkvelt
Zermatt Arms / ZAI


They have obviously done extensive testing, with over 50K rounds of high pressure ammunition and had no issues with their actions that makes me feel pretty confident they have good margin of safety built in, obviously this is only one manufacturer and they stated as long as you are using Factory Ammunition.
 
I was curious about this also, so I emailed Zermatt Arms, asking if their actions had a Max Pressure and if the High Pressure rounds such as the .277 Fury and 7mm BC were safe to use in their actions.

Response:

Those cartridges are safe to run in all of our actions. The pressure is being contained by the case so as long as you're running factory ammunition, you're good to go.

The actions have been stress tested with these cartridges and show no signs of failure or extreme stress after 50k rounds.

Thank you,

Ray Heusinkvelt
Zermatt Arms / ZAI


They have obviously done extensive testing, with over 50K rounds of high pressure ammunition and had no issues with their actions that makes me feel pretty confident they have good margin of safety built in, obviously this is only one manufacturer and they stated as long as you are using Factory Ammunition.


That’s a solid response and exactly the sort of thing I hoped to hear. Thank you. :)
 
thats super impressive, ive been thinking about doing 260 ai. getting a creedmoor shoulder with the sig brass sucks ass and the increased case capacity would certainly help with some speeds. what powders are you using?
Why does is getting a creedmoor shoulder so difficult? I'd think a 260 or 7-08 fl die, with 0.100 milled off the bottom would put the longer 20° shoulder in place. Trim to 1.915, bump the neck/shoulder junction back enough till you get bolt closure with a lil resistance, and then fireform. Neck turning may be needed due to shoulder brass now being neck brass. But you'd have some stout ass 65cm brass when done.
 
the best way to insure youre getting good ammo is to buy factory sig ammo and pull it. its expensive. but realistically all you need is a 100 or 200 rounds to burn out a 243 ai barrel. you can buy the American reloading stuff, youre just going to have to roll the dice on the box you get. ive had some that have 26% differences in case weights. id focus on stuff head stamped with 23 or 24. I did a test yesterday after blasting a few hundred rounds of 25 fury and there wasn't any etching in the chamber.

if youre really concerned and not to worried about saving money, buy the sig ammo factory and then use a bullet puller.


Is my math right, that you are only expecting a barrel life of 500-1000 rounds from your 243AI (100-200 cases fired 4-5 times)?

If you are pulling bullets, have you tried using the SIG powder that comes in the loaded ammo? Any idea what the powder is, or a close analogs?

I guess the reason I am asking, is it wouldn't surprise me that the currently available powders might not be ideal for high pressure cases; from a performance, barrel wear, combustion efficiency, etc. perspective. After all you don't run 87 octane in you 14:1 compression ratio drag car.
 
Is my math right, that you are only expecting a barrel life of 500-1000 rounds from your 243AI (100-200 cases fired 4-5 times)?

If you are pulling bullets, have you tried using the SIG powder that comes in the loaded ammo? Any idea what the powder is, or a close analogs?

I guess the reason I am asking, is it wouldn't surprise me that the currently available powders might not be ideal for high pressure cases; from a performance, barrel wear, combustion efficiency, etc. perspective. After all you don't run 87 octane in you 14:1 compression ratio drag car.
yah thats about as much barrel life as im expecting. I just cleaned the barrel. I was getting heavy bolt lifts with a load that ejected perfectly 50 rounds ago. after cleaning it worked like a top again. this is high-performance stuff and you certainly have to treat it differently than 308. As for powders, I have never tried it. I heard its a reloader powder through the grapevine.

ive had the best luck with ball powders, leverevultion in 308, h335 in 8.6 supers, staball 6.5 in the creeds and the 243
 
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