223 vs 22CM

[NateTP38]

I posted this in the 223 thread, but it is probably better as a separate thread:

What are the pros and cons of a 22-250/22CM versus the .223? Since LH Tikka .223s are hard to find I thought about rebarreling my T3 7-08 to .223. However, LH 384 bolt assemblies are impossible to find as well. Seems like rebarreling to a 22CM might be the answer, but is it worth it if all of my realistic hunting scenarios will be <300 yards? Am I better off just waiting for a .223?

 

[B23]

Everyone should have at least one 22-250 or 22CM if you'd prefer one of those instead. Besides, a 22-250 or the like, will make things more deader.

FWIW, I'd use at least a 9tw barrel. It'll give you a lot more options with bullet choice.

 

[BjornF16]

I don’t think there is much advantage for shooting inside 400 yards.

If your limit is inside 400 yards, then the real question becomes how long are you willing to wait?

I went with 22CM to launch 88 ELD-M beyond 500 yards…more velocity and better wind bucking than .223 launching either 77’s or 88’s.

An 8 twist will likely stabilize the 88, but I’d go 7 or 7.5 twist if you do decide to get 22CM.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Timely thread. I was thinking of posting this very topic while I was out exercising this morning. Not 223 vs 22 Creed, but 223 vs 22-250, which is essentially the same.

Does the extra velocity translate to more tissue destruction?

Does a 77 TMK, or some of the other bullets that work well at 223 speeds, come apart at 22-250 velocities?

Are stout bonded bullets the better path at 22-250 velocities?

How much of what we have learned in the 223 thread transfers to the 22 Creed and 22-250?

I hope this isn't too much of an aside. The question would seem to translate well to what the OP is asking.

I need to load my grandson some 22-250 deer ammo. Shots under 150 yards with a properly twisted rifle. This is what I have for bullets. Full throttle with all of them? Back off velocity with the TMK and ELD?

 

[PantherCity]

I know Formadillo likes the 88eldm in the 22 creed. He also says he and his group get the 1:8 tikka 22-250 and have them reamed to 22creed.

I’d ask why the 22 creed reaming? How much speed is gained? Other advantages?


I’m thinking about getting a 1:8 tikka in an XLR chassis with the PR-2 stock so I can easily adapt the fit for myself and my wife and 3 kids (6/4/2) as they grow. They will just use it shooting steel and out of box blinds for whitetails so I could even add weights.

I’d like to play with that gun for some PRS matches myself. Thinking 20” barrel with suppressor and maybe a tenmile 3-18.


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[NateTP38]

Timely thread. I was thinking of posting this very topic while I was out exercising this morning. Not 223 vs 22 Creed, but 223 vs 22-250, which is essentially the same.

Does the extra velocity translate to more tissue destruction?

Does a 77 TMK, or some of the other bullets that work well at 223 speeds, come apart at 22-250 velocities?

Are stout bonded bullets the better path at 22-250 velocities?

How much of what we have learned in the 223 thread transfers to the 22 Creed and 22-250?

I hope this isn't too much of an aside. The question would seem to translate well to what the OP is asking.

I need to load my grandson some 22-250 deer ammo. Shots under 150 yards with a properly twisted rifle. This is what I have for bullets. Full throttle with all of them? Back off velocity with the TMK and ELD?

Not an aside at all. Those are pretty much the questions I was hoping to have answered.

 

[NateTP38]

I know Formadillo likes the 88eldm in the 22 creed. He also says he and his group get the 1:8 tikka 22-250 and have them reamed to 22creed.

I’d ask why the 22 creed reaming? How much speed is gained? Other advantages?


I’m thinking about getting a 1:8 tikka in an XLR chassis with the PR-2 stock so I can easily adapt the fit for myself and my wife and 3 kids (6/4/2) as they grow. They will just use it shooting steel and out of box blinds for whitetails so I could even add weights.

I’d like to play with that gun for some PRS matches myself. Thinking 20” barrel with suppressor and maybe a tenmile 3-18.


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A 223 would absolutely be all I need. The idea of looking at a 22CM is less about advantages, and more about the fact that I can buy a prefit now, but I have no idea when a LH 223 will come in stock (or a bolt to convert my 7-08l.

I'm wondering if the cons of the 22CM (more recoil, less availability, faster barrel burnout) are worth not having to wait.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I'm looking at getting a .223/5.56 in the near future for predators.
I can load it down to .22 Hornet velocities with 55grain pills for Bobcat, or push
some 70grainers pretty fast for deer/hogs if I get a wild hair.
The versatility and availability of ammo is a no brainer really.

 

[Formidilosus]

I know Formadillo likes the 88eldm in the 22 creed. He also says he and his group get the 1:8 tikka 22-250 and have them reamed to 22creed.

I’d ask why the 22 creed reaming? How much speed is gained? Other advantages?

22CM is the 22-250AI. It gets 100-150fps more MV, less to no case stretching, and available brass everywhere.

 

[PantherCity]

Thanks for the explanation that makes sense.

I guess I could use my 6.5cm dies with the appropriate neck bushing for the .22cm too.
The cost to have the chamber reamed would be a wash considering I wouldn’t have to buy another set of quality dies. I have piles of 6.5cm brass that could be necked down.


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[BjornF16]

Timely thread. I was thinking of posting this very topic while I was out exercising this morning. Not 223 vs 22 Creed, but 223 vs 22-250, which is essentially the same.

Does the extra velocity translate to more tissue destruction?

Does a 77 TMK, or some of the other bullets that work well at 223 speeds, come apart at 22-250 velocities?

Are stout bonded bullets the better path at 22-250 velocities?

How much of what we have learned in the 223 thread transfers to the 22 Creed and 22-250?

I hope this isn't too much of an aside. The question would seem to translate well to what the OP is asking.

I need to load my grandson some 22-250 deer ammo. Shots under 150 yards with a properly twisted rifle. This is what I have for bullets. Full throttle with all of them? Back off velocity with the TMK and ELD?

@Formidilosus answered the question of 77TMK at 22-250 speeds in the .223 thread, see link below

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

There is not a single NA game animal I would even remotely hesitate to kill at will with the 223/77tmk combo at 450’ish yards and under.

www.rokslide.com

 

[Formidilosus]

The 22CM isn’t a replacement for the fast twist 223; it’s a replacement for nearly everything bigger. If people saw how a fast .224 kills with 88gr ELD-M’s or the 77gr TMK, as well as the ridiculous hits rates in the field with it, there’s really no reason for bigger calibers/cartridges for the vast majority of uses.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus answered the question of 77TMK at 22-250 speeds in the .223 thread, see link below

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

There is not a single NA game animal I would even remotely hesitate to kill at will with the 223/77tmk combo at 450’ish yards and under.

www.rokslide.com

With more use of the 77gr TMK’s at 22CM/22-250 MV’s, it kills well. There is a bit of loss in penetration, but nothing has stopped one including the heavy leg bones of big animals.

 

[BjornF16]

The 22CM isn’t a replacement for the fast twist 223; it’s a replacement for nearly everything bigger. If people saw how a fast .224 kills with 88gr ELD-M’s or the 77gr TMK, as well as the ridiculous hits rates in the field with it, there’s really no reason for bigger calibers/cartridges for the vast majority of uses.

My first hunt with 22 CM coming up in a couple of weeks…primarily Texas whitetail but really hoping axis or red deer steps out as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

My first hunt with 22 CM coming up in a couple of weeks…primarily Texas whitetail but really hoping axis or red deer steps out as well.

Sweet. One thing to note is that a lot of people find that they’re shooting more animals multiple times. At first most start wondering if it’s a caliber thing. Then they realize the gun is just more shootable and they can shoot more before the animal drops.

 

[BjornF16]

Sweet. One thing to note is that a lot of people find that they’re shooting more animals multiple times. At first most start wondering if it’s a caliber thing. Then they realize the gun is just more shootable and they can shoot more before the animal drops.

This is the way!

 

[id_jon]

The 22CM isn’t a replacement for the fast twist 223; it’s a replacement for nearly everything bigger. If people saw how a fast .224 kills with 88gr ELD-M’s or the 77gr TMK, as well as the ridiculous hits rates in the field with it, there’s really no reason for bigger calibers/cartridges for the vast majority of uses.

Building a 22cm as we speak, will I have any reason to keep my 6.5cm once its done? I try to have as little overlap of systems as possible.

 

[Formidilosus]

Building a 22cm as we speak, will I have any reason to keep my 6.5cm once its done? I try to have as little overlap of systems as possible.

Highly available factory ammo and while in reality it doesn’t make much difference, most are more comfortable on elk at distance with the 6.5cm, even though the 22CM with correct bullets has a longer terminal range.

 

[NateTP38]

The 22CM isn’t a replacement for the fast twist 223; it’s a replacement for nearly everything bigger. If people saw how a fast .224 kills with 88gr ELD-M’s or the 77gr TMK, as well as the ridiculous hits rates in the field with it, there’s really no reason for bigger calibers/cartridges for the vast majority of uses.

Can you clarify this a bit? I have a 6.5CM that has pretty much rendered my 7/08 obsolete. Part of my reasoning for this process is turn the 7/08 into something I will actually use that has less overlap with the 6.5CM. I definitely want something in .224, but are you saying the 22CM would overlap/be a replacement for the 6.5CM?

 

[Formidilosus]

but are you saying the 22CM would overlap/be a replacement for the 6.5CM?

Yes. Other than easy factory ammo, there is nothing I would use a 6.5cm for (which is every animal in NA at to a minimum of 600 yards for me) that a 22CM wouldn’t also do. And, it will do it with way less recoil, less wind drift, higher retained impact velocity, and higher hit rates. The 6.5 CM is an excellent choice due to manageable recoil, widely available world class factory ammo and rifles chambered correctly for it.