223 Trainer & Matching Fast 6mm

[Rainyday]

EuroOptic is supposed to be getting some factory-threaded, 16” stainless steel 1:8” twist .223 lites in stock sometime.

Did you hear that directly from eurooptic? All the 16” threaded barbells I’ve seen are the blued version

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Did you hear that directly from eurooptic? All the 16” threaded barbells I’ve seen are the blued version

Jake posted a question about it in the .223 thread. I expect it to happen.

 

[Rainyday]

Jake posted a question about it in the .223 thread. I expect it to happen.

Good to know. I was going to pull the trigger on a blued one but might have to wait for the stainless

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Good to know. I was going to pull the trigger on a blued one but might have to wait for the stainless

You can always call him up and ask him directly.

 

[Speaks]

Im not super worried about blued vs stainless.

My understanding is that on Tikka's its the same steel jus with a different coating.

I have rifles from the 40s and the 70s that are blued and not rusted and have had considerable use including years of use by me hunting in the snow in WI.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Im not super worried about blued vs stainless.

My understanding is that on Tikka's its the same steel jus with a different coating.

I have rifles from the 40s and the 70s that are blued and not rusted and have had considerable use including years of use by me hunting in the snow in WI.

I wouldn’t worry about it too much either, but it is nice to have more options.

 

[Kyguy]

Im not super worried about blued vs stainless.

My understanding is that on Tikka's its the same steel jus with a different coating.

I have rifles from the 40s and the 70s that are blued and not rusted and have had considerable use including years of use by me hunting in the snow in WI.

There's definitely a metallurgical difference between blued chrome-moly steel and stainless steel

 

[Speaks]

There's definitely a metallurgical difference between blued chrome-moly steel and stainless steel

While generally true my understanding (possibly incorrect) is that the Tikka actions are not actually a different steel but have a stainless colored coating on one and blued on the other.

A quick google search only confirms that this is a debated topic but no clear answer.

 

[hereinaz]

All Tikka bolts are stainless.

I can’t believe they would simply blue a stainless action.

 

[Kaleb]

If I have the option I get stainless. The blued 16" 8 twist 223 is a smoking deal in my opinion. Same for the 243. I'm tempted to get the 243 just to salt it away until the girls get a little bigger not that they couldn't shoot the 243 now they just don't need it. Another idea or itch is get the 243 put the barrel on my ctr and order a Lilja with a barrel flair and have a local buddy chamber up a 18" 6gt with 5/8 threads. Seems like that would pair well with the lite stock coming out. Trying to think of my kids of course lol

 

[Kyguy]

All Tikka bolts are stainless.

I can’t believe they would simply blue a stainless action.

Bluing stainless is a cost prohibitive process. That's why all of the wonder coatings are popular now. I'll bet that the debate is whether or not the cera-koted models are stainless or chrome-moly under the coating.

 

[mtnbound]

If I have the option I get stainless. The blued 16" 8 twist 223 is a smoking deal in my opinion. Same for the 243. I'm tempted to get the 243 just to salt it away until the girls get a little bigger not that they couldn't shoot the 243 now they just don't need it. Another idea or itch is get the 243 put the barrel on my ctr and order a Lilja with a barrel flair and have a local buddy chamber up a 18" 6gt with 5/8 threads. Seems like that would pair well with the lite stock coming out. Trying to think of my kids of course lol

I would not hesitate to get the blued version, if it becomes an issue, get it Nitrited. The 1-8 twist 243 is a great option that doesn't get the attention it deserves.

 

[mtnbound]

While generally true my understanding (possibly incorrect) is that the Tikka actions are not actually a different steel but have a stainless colored coating on one and blued on the other.

A quick google search only confirms that this is a debated topic but no clear answer.

From what I understand, the painted versions are SS under the paint, but the blued ones are just blued.

 

[mtnbound]

Is $769 for a .223 tikka a good deal? Blued barrel OK? (thought I saw somebody poo pooing them somewhere on Rokslide). What twist do I want for 77 and 88 grain TMKs?

Thanks!

Go with the blue versions if they become an issue for them. Nitrited. I mentioned the 88s from Hornady before, but I wouldn't count on Sierra's 88s, as they haven't been released yet and, unless Sierra changes, they will be impossible to get with any regularity.

 

[wind gypsy]

If I have the option I get stainless. The blued 16" 8 twist 223 is a smoking deal in my opinion. Same for the 243. I'm tempted to get the 243 just to salt it away until the girls get a little bigger not that they couldn't shoot the 243 now they just don't need it. Another idea or itch is get the 243 put the barrel on my ctr and order a Lilja with a barrel flair and have a local buddy chamber up a 18" 6gt with 5/8 threads. Seems like that would pair well with the lite stock coming out. Trying to think of my kids of course lol

Agree with stainless. But that blued 16" 223 with the walnut stock for $599 on EO keeps tempting me to buy another gun I dont need.. Skeptical i'll ever find such a deal in a handful of years when my girls are old enough.

 

[Kaleb]

Agree with stainless. But that blued 16" 223 with the walnut stock for $599 on EO keeps tempting me to buy another gun I dont need.. Skeptical i'll ever find such a deal in a handful of years when my girls are old enough.

I know it and they get there quick. I gave my 10 year old one of those for her birthday. I figured I had a couple years before little sister needed her own she's 8. Little sister wanted to go hunt one day with us and asked if she was shooting or just watching? I figured just watching but stuck a long bipod on my 223 tikka. She was really taking things seriously and when deer came out I told her to practice aiming at them. One thing led to another and she was assuring me she was holding on her without wiggling grin. I told her to shoot if she felt good about it. She did doe fell and I lost my 223...grin.

 

[ElPollo]

I've read through a few old threads on the subject, but they seem to go in opposite directions from my questions. If this is all already covered elsewhere, please direct me to it.

Want to build a 223 trainer that will be comparable to a fast 6mm (6saum, 6 um, etc) I'm also building - same stock (TBD) and similar action. Don't know if having the same barrel length is worth jumping through the hoops. Balance and handling will probably be somewhat different no matter what. There is a strong likelihood that I will go with a Defiance AntiX for the 6mm. What would be a comparable action to use for a 223? Don't want to spend that much money on a trainer. I'd considering going the Tikka route for a trainer (and possibly the 6mm, but I might be locked in to a defiance action there). How much difference is there between an antix and a tikka action?

A 22 Creedmoor has also crossed my mind instead of the 223. This doesn't sound like a good idea though from the barrel life research I've done: supposedly 800-1000 rounds from a 22 creed and five thousand plus from a 223. Does this sound right? Can you choke back a 22 creed for practice and then amp it up for hunting, if desired, to get the barrel life into the thousands? This rifle could also be useful in the future when my kids start hunting, or if I decide that I want to go shoot a brown bear, like some of you .

Random Questions:
-Is there a practice bullet that is ballistically similar to the 77 TMK which is more available and cheaper? Would be nice to practice with a cheap one and hunt with the TMK.
-Would you buy a factory rifle or action and prefit? Which model and brand?
-Does it matter if the trainer is a tank with a heavy barrel and the 6mm is ~8lb?
-Are you guys reloading 223 for trainer rounds or ? (I reload everything that I shoot now pretty much, but don't know if there is an easier way for this and how much it matters. I suspect that reloading will almost always produce better accuracy and be better)
-If reloading, can you get away with using random 5.56/223 brass or are you guys using matching headstamps (I know the answer for max consistency and accuracy, but it would be nice to load up 500 rounds with cheap brass)
-What brand brass if purchasing bulk matching headstamp?
-I have small base 5.56 dies already. Probably worth it to buy a set of 223 dies with a micrometer seater for max consistency?
-What barrel length would you go with on the trainer. I'm thinking 20" for the 6mm. Would be nice for kids to hunt suppressed with the trainer and not have it be a flag pole. I don't know if possible (probably not), but it would be nice to have it behave ballistically similar to the 6mm.
-What twist rate? Shooting 77 tmks and the new 88 grainers for hunting.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer any of my many questions. My young kids appreciate it too - I've been spending way too much time on here lately reading through thousands of posts! I'm sure I can figure it all out on my own, but hey what are discussion forums for!?

I would suggest some caution with moving forward with the strategy you are proposing. In theory, it’s a good plan. The concept of a 223 bolt gun trainer (particularly a short suppressed tikka) really has no significant downsides. The issue is that you’ll get it as a trainer or as a hunting gun for your kids and you’ll like it a lot. Then you’ll want to try killing something yourself with it and it’ll work well. Then you’ll start realizing that all your other guns like the fast 6 you are planning for end up being 1-2% guns that just end up sitting in your gun safe taking up space. You’ll stop building and buying guns and start spending your money buying ammo in bulk.

That said, the one downside of a tikka 223 is the magazines. There are multiple threads on here about that. If you replace the magazine with a reliable aftermarket version, a short, suppressed 223 tikka is about the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

 

[EuroOptic]

Tikka T3x Lite Stainless Synthetic 223 Rem 20" Bbl 1:8 5/8in x 24 tpi Synthetic/Stainless JRTXB31220MT - 2 20"'s left, PM me if you want one ; ill hook ya up
the 16" stainless guns will probably happen, I just have to litigate it with my guy in purchasing

 

[JFK]

It’s more work to get there in a tikka and may or may not worth the trouble, but a 22 arc is a neat little cartridge. You gain some velocity and ability to shoot longer bullets over a 223. No magazine length issue with the arc either. Ammo for the arc isn’t as cheap and you need to handload for it to really make it come alive in a bolt gun.

 

[Rainyday]

I only worry about stainless vs blued because I live in a very wet coastal environment. I think for most people blued is just fine