.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Plague]

I didn't read through all 677 pages of material here so forgive me for searching for a quick answer. My son has a Ruger American Gen2 .223 with a 1 in 8 twist. I have been doing some load work-up for it using varget and 77gr TMK's. Question for this group, what velocity should I expect this to get to with a 20" barrel once I work up to a near-max safe load? I'm limited to 2.260" OAL seating depth.

Also, varget is just what I have on hand. Has there been a different powder that has had consistent results for most people that are using the 77's?

2600 ish. Plus or minus a bit. I run 8208 for my 223 loads. But Varget is just fine.

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

Got an email today that alpha has 223 brass.

I’m long on Starline 5.56 brass I’ve been using, but for you lapua brass shooters maybe another premium alternative?

 

[waspocrew]

Got an email today that alpha has 223 brass.

I’m long on Starline 5.56 brass I’ve been using, but for you lapua brass shooters maybe another premium alternative?

I saw that - Alpha is good stuff, but I’d hate to lose expensive brass. I don’t feel too bad about losing Lake City, Etc.

 

[Chris in TN]

I didn't read through all 677 pages of material here so forgive me for searching for a quick answer. My son has a Ruger American Gen2 .223 with a 1 in 8 twist. I have been doing some load work-up for it using varget and 77gr TMK's. Question for this group, what velocity should I expect this to get to with a 20" barrel once I work up to a near-max safe load? I'm limited to 2.260" OAL seating depth.

Also, varget is just what I have on hand. Has there been a different powder that has had consistent results for most people that are using the 77's?

I use Benchmark for my AR magazine length 5.56 75-77s and get 2575' with a 16". I'd think you could realistically hit 2725' or a bit more, with Benchmark. And you should be able to push that a bit higher with Varget, which is a slower powder.

I'm using Varget right now (I'm still relatively new to this particular info....FWIW) for my 2.395" bolt gun (18") .223/75/77 loads. With LC brass, GRT is predicting 2785' and the speeds I'm actually getting are 2790'ish with my charges. That's very close - beyond the ability of a model to predict and well into the realm of what I'd call chance. Models just aren't that good.

Looking at data in GRT I'd predict that if you took my Varget load and switched from my current 75eldm to the 77tmk (which I have used, but am out of at the moment), loaded it to 2.26" in LC or similar brass, you'd hit max pressure somewhere in the 24.5 grains of Varget ballpark, and you'd likely be at a speed of 2800'ish in a 20" barrel.

Warning: What I said just now is very dependent upon brass capacity. I'm using LC brass (for the very technical reason that I happen to have a bunch of it) for my 2.395" bolt gun loads. I check every case before seating bullets and I've had a couple of pieces of AAC brass get into my LC brass. The difference is immediately obvious as the powder in the LC brass comes to the base of the neck, but in AAC brass it fills the neck. So the 24.5 figure I refer to assumes high capacity brass. Don't just guess at that. Start low, work up.

Varget may not be the absolute perfect powder for every 5.56 load but it is THE powder I'd choose if I had to choose just one. And yes, it measures well enough (my measure is a RCBS uniflow) to get a low enough ES for use inside of 600 yards.

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

I saw that - Alpha is good stuff, but I’d hate to lose expensive brass. I don’t feel too bad about losing Lake City, Etc.

Yeah same here

 

[Thegman]

I use Benchmark for my AR magazine length 5.56 75-77s and get 2575' with a 16". I'd think you could realistically hit 2725' or a bit more, with Benchmark. And you should be able to push that a bit higher with Varget, which is a slower powder.

I'm using Varget right now (I'm still relatively new to this particular info....FWIW) for my 2.395" bolt gun (18") .223/75/77 loads. With LC brass, GRT is predicting 2785' and the speeds I'm actually getting are 2790'ish with my charges. That's very close - beyond the ability of a model to predict and well into the realm of what I'd call chance. Models just aren't that good.

Looking at data in GRT I'd predict that if you took my Varget load and switched from my current 75eldm to the 77tmk (which I have used, but am out of at the moment), loaded it to 2.26" in LC or similar brass, you'd hit max pressure somewhere in the 24.5 grains of Varget ballpark, and you'd likely be at a speed of 2800'ish in a 20" barrel.

Warning: What I said just now is very dependent upon brass capacity. I'm using LC brass (for the very technical reason that I happen to have a bunch of it) for my 2.395" bolt gun loads. I check every case before seating bullets and I've had a couple of pieces of AAC brass get into my LC brass. The difference is immediately obvious as the powder in the LC brass comes to the base of the neck, but in AAC brass it fills the neck. So the 24.5 figure I refer to assumes high capacity brass. Don't just guess at that. Start low, work up.

Varget may not be the absolute perfect powder for every 5.56 load but it is THE powder I'd choose if I had to choose just one. And yes, it measures well enough (my measure is a RCBS uniflow) to get a low enough ES for use inside of 600 yards.

Varget will work fine, but loading at 2.26", I suspect Benchmark would actually produce a little more velocity than Varget, and H4895 more than either. I'd guess that Varget will top out somewhere around 2,700 fps w/ 77TMK / 20" barrel. Loading out close to 2.4" like in your bolt rifle, you can fit enough Varget to where it can start hitting its stride.

 

[h2so4]

@Justin Crossley

Any insight into this?

JVB = Justin C.
What better way to spin up excitement and create fodder for a forum? Write articles with lots of creative writing and then unleash the forum on it while all the old guys shake their head in agreement. Justin, you’re a real man of genius.

 

[The Guide]

I didn't read through all 677 pages of material here so forgive me for searching for a quick answer. My son has a Ruger American Gen2 .223 with a 1 in 8 twist. I have been doing some load work-up for it using varget and 77gr TMK's. Question for this group, what velocity should I expect this to get to with a 20" barrel once I work up to a near-max safe load? I'm limited to 2.260" OAL seating depth.

Also, varget is just what I have on hand. Has there been a different powder that has had consistent results for most people that are using the 77's?

I have a 20" Howa Mini Action that shoots Black Hills 5.56 77tmk at 2759 fps and the AAC 77tmk @ 2689 fps. These are all factory loaded AR length rounds. I would say you should see something between 2650 and 2800 fps from a 20" barrel which will give you a maximum terminal range from 425 yards to 575 yards depending upon your velocity and atmosphere.

Jay

 

[Lawnboi]

Finally another premium 223 option.

NEW Alpha 223 Rem SRP Brass with OCD Technology

Product Information Cartridge: 223 Remington Finish: Brass Condition: New Quantity: 100 or 500 *Same Lot Number Primed: No Primer Size: Small Primer Pocket *This is not loaded ammunition.

www.bluecollarreloading.com

 

[BigWoods]

It was 100% a joke…
But here are a few details that are not jokes.

• The Peterson’s article is dated May 29, 2026

• A direct JVB quote from the article is as follows:
“Two years ago, I competed in the Sheep Mountain Shootout NRL Hunter match hosted by Gunwerks, near Cody, Wyoming. My rifle? A lightweight 7mm PRC loaded with 180-grain ELD Match bullets. I was up against some of the nation’s best shooters—most armed with 6.5 Creedmoor rifles since 6mm Creedmoor does not make the required power factor for NRL Hunter. Even though armed with a “cannon,” I took 3rd Place in the Open Light class.”

• Screen shot of a quick google search for “2024 Sheep Mountain Shootout NRL Hunter match hosted by Gunwerks results”

View attachment 1075769

From a quick spin around the internet, it appears that Rokslide’s own Justin Crossley took third in the Open Light Class two years ago at that event.

This was an AI generated result, soooooo….
We will leave each one to decide which you find more believable, JVB or an AI Overview.

I really don’t know.

A quick search of the 2023 results doesn't yield anything either.

 

[The Guide]

A quick search of the 2023 results doesn't yield anything either.

It couldn't be that... JVB is full of sit...

Jay

 

[Billogna]

It couldn't be that... JVB is full of sit...

Jay

They don't list the category for leg shooters division.... special invite only.

 

[wind gypsy]

Lapua brass was justifiable when it was mid $50s per 100. I'd have a real hard time spending $1/ea for essentially free 223 brass.