.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Speaks]

Anyone fine the 77TMK in factory 22 Creedmoor loads? Found one place that does them more or less custom for just over $3 a round but only the one. Even UM does not show it as an option on their website.

 

[Gettincloser]

Anyone fine the 77TMK in factory 22 Creedmoor loads? Found one place that does them more or less custom for just over $3 a round but only the one. Even UM does not show it as an option on their website.

I would love to see real world performance on this at close range! (Worst real world I could think of for this bullet!) I like to know how bullets perform on the fringes!

 

[Formidilosus]

I would love to see real world performance on this at close range! (Worst real world I could think of for this bullet!) I like to know how bullets perform on the fringes!

It’s in the 22CM thread pretty sure. They make an absolute mess at 3,300 fps impact. Kill like few other combos do, but if you hit bone, you’re losing meat.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I would love to see real world performance on this at close range! (Worst real world I could think of for this bullet!) I like to know how bullets perform on the fringes!

What exactly do you want to know and see? I’ve killed multiple large deer under 100 yards with 77 TMKs from a 22 Creed.

 

[dreamingWest]

I shot a small deer at 35 yards with a 77 grain TMK this season. But MV is only 2725. Deer ran about 30 yards. Blood trail like a g5 MegaMeat.

 

[Chris in TN]

It’s in the 22CM thread pretty sure. They make an absolute mess at 3,300 fps impact. Kill like few other combos do, but if you hit bone, you’re losing meat.

Apropos of nothing......

I'll just say that shot placement still matters even at 3300'. Years ago when we had a pair of .300Wbys the one that dad hunted with, for a couple of years he shot Hornady 150gr IB factory ammo. We also shot Berger 185s and Nosler 165/168BTs and 180 NABs, but back to my point....

IIRC the velocity on those Hornady 150s was well over 3300' and one morning dad took a quartering to shot at a small whitetail buck that was less than 100 yards from him, so hit at very high speed. Instead of hitting the point of the near shoulder he hit about mid-throat so that the bullet went down the edge of the ribcage underneath the far shoulder then exited. It did NOT kill the deer though it did damage one lung, best I could tell (I hit top of heart and both lungs with my 6.8spc seconds later). The deer ran about 100 yards and stopped where I (hunting from about 300 yards away) could see it and had a clear shot. I finished it off. That was the classic 'marginal shot'. Ironically the bullet held together really well, like bonded bullets are supposed to, and that was the problem - had it splashed like a match bullet the deer might have died instantly with fragments in the lungs or heart. Instead it just tried to run off with the world's most mangled leg ever.

Some years later he hit a doe slightly high (IIRC that was with a 168NBT but I don't remember for sure, if so impact would have been about 2800') and broke her spine but didn't kill her. We found her trying to drag herself off on her front legs and finished her. Then I shot a doe with my .280ai and almost certainly hit her in the spinal processes too high and she got up and ran later, never to be seen again.

My point in saying all that is simply to say that I've seen those 'marginal hits' big bore guys like to talk about, not turn out so well, even with .300wby. The reality is, shot placement is 100x more important than having extra 'wallop' on bad shots. You absolutely can not count on extra energy helping on marginal shots. It's an absolute myth. And likewise, I've seen other marginal shots (liver and one lung) die very quickly with my 6.8spc. Where you hit matters more than what you hit with. Even on, maybe especially on, marginal shots.

I know, preaching to the choir. I just get tired of seeing people (not you, but others) appeal to the extra power of big magnums as if it ever helps anything. Every time I read one of those big-wallop guys my mind replays watching that little buck dad shot with the .300 running away, then stopping to look back so that I had a shot with my 6.8, that put him straight down. Call it an object lesson, for those who can understand it.

ETA: And I put that in the .223 thread because it seems like there are a lot of maybe well-intentioned but badly-informed people who haunt these threads to try to save us from small calibers. It gets old.

 

[Gettincloser]

What exactly do you want to know and see? I’ve killed multiple large deer under 100 yards with 77 TMKs from a 22 Creed.

I was wondering what that would look like to have a 77gr TMK going that fast. I imagine you are losing an on-side shoulder and it will look like a grenade went off! I would imagine that a 77gr TMK at those speeds leaves a 4" to 6" wide wound on the close side... just my thoughts!

 

[Tahr]

Recoil: I hate it. I have a brass butt plate 303 SMLE induced flinch from my youth. Shoot far better with a low recoiling rifle. I have a 270wsm but only shoot it with a suppressor and still don't like it much. Can shoot it ok but why bother? Even have a Kimber Hunter in 257R and with stout hand loads find that a bit obnoxious.
Tolerating recoil has nothing to do with experience; I am an ex commercial hunter and have killed many hundreds of deer. Tried most common calibers. My comfort range is 223 through to 22 Creed, complete with suppressor. Very happy at that and get a high percentage of one shot kills.

 

[SBR Sarge]

You reprobates cost me a bushel of cash.

I kept reading this thread and finally caved.

Roughtech Ranch in 223. NF NX8 2.5-20. Sig SDR556 can, Harris bipod.

View attachment 978390


View attachment 978391



It was cold, windy and snowy, but I had to send some downrange. Several factory loads were sub moa with 5 shot groups despite the shivering.

You won’t catch me hunting deer with it, but it sure does shoot well and is tons of fun.

SBR Sarge

I don’t know why I didn’t get one of these sooner.

What a hoot to shoot, and it groups like nothing I’ve ever owned.

It throws the Phantom Defense 5.56 77gr TMK at 2778 fps, and the Black Arc 62gr TTSX at 3061 fps. Both group just under an inch for 5 at 100yds. Hell, even the venerable Federal LE223T3 from work groups well.

I’ll try and get up to where I can hunt with it so I can contribute to the cause here. I’m leaning toward the TTSX, hopefully more to follow!

 

[Dave0317]

It’s been done. And we’ve talked about doing an S2H thing just for that.

Fact: all else being equal- it is not possible to shoot a gun that moves more, as well as a gun that moves less. Doesn’t matter who you are, or how well you shoot big guns, or anything else- you can not shoot the same gun that moves more, as well as you can the same gun that moves less.

I figured I should be pretty surprised if you or S2H or UM hadnt already done at least some informal testing of that.

It would make a good forum post with pics or a good YouTube video so we could show these guys what is meant by practical accuracy, from field positions, and how rifle and cartridge may affect the outcome.

I’ll get a little off topic for this thread if I expand much further but… It’s hard to speak the same language on the internet. You’ve seen it.