.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[C_chats_choots]

if it was me... I'd be calling every friend that has a dog to help.. depends on what is legal where you hunt thou...

Only friend with proven dogs is a few hours away. My dog has tracked some, but he’s not experienced enough to trust 100%. For example, he was on the trail of this deer, then started trying to fight an armadillo.


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[deer_hunter132]

We did some strategic walking in the woods for a few hours and couldn’t find anything else. Just part of hunting in the thicker stuff in Louisiana.

I’ll be giving the TMK at least one more chance, but I’ll be setup better for follow up shots. Made the rookie mistake of having my scope magnified too much to make and easy follow up.


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a local, cool! sent you a dm

 

[RockAndSage]

The shoulder meat was still ruined all the same.

Not trying to be combative here man, but if the bullet ruined an entire set of shoulders...what more would you have wanted, besides better shot placement?

Sincerely, I've seen deer bolt 100+ yards with shots from .300 WinMags that liquify their lungs, too.

 

[goalie]

Not trying to be combative here man, but if the bullet ruined an entire set of shoulders...what more would you have wanted, besides better shot placement?

Sincerely, I've seen deer bolt 100+ yards with shots from .300 WinMags that liquify their lungs, too.

For some people, a blood trail.

That said, I'm mainly hunting 5.56/223 and have had no issues on big norther MN deer in woods.

 

[FredH]

Im up to 8 total data points now
The first one was a poor shot and hit too far forward, but still died around the 100ish yard mark. Its somewhere in this thread circa Nov/Dec 2024. 75gr eldm.

I shot one today that somehow made it around 100ish yards, heart was intact lungs had some damage but not as much carnage as usual. 75gr gold dot.

It seems liek if you heart shot them they go between 0-30yds max in my sample sizes.

Most interestingly thinh i noticed today, the two that ran the furthest had the best blood trails.

Here is pics from today.
View attachment 972728View attachment 972729View attachment 972730View attachment 972731

Not much damage there for sure. Placement being perfect makes a small gun look good though. My 22 ARC running the 80 gr. ELDM is up today. Man if I shoot one I hope it doesn't get down into the briar bottoms. Been rainy and muddy. Can't get a truck very close in. Actually thinking of doing the unspeakable, going out of the rifle rotation and using a 7-08.

 

[1000yards]

Not trying to be combative here man, but if the bullet ruined an entire set of shoulders...what more would you have wanted, besides better shot placement?

Sincerely, I've seen deer bolt 100+ yards with shots from .300 WinMags that liquify their lungs, too.

To qualify that statement on the shoulders being ruined, there is a difference in meat loss between a 30-06 that will RUIN the shoulders, and a 223 that will render the shoulders unusable. For me personally I'm not going to cut off small pieces of meat around a lead bullet's path to feed the young members of my family, so the results are the same (for me).

And yes I've also seen plenty of whitetail run an impressive distance without any heart or lungs, we all know they can do that. But if we're talking about a balanced scale between meat loss and time to incapacitation, I would prefer a load that performs on average on the 'dead quicker with more meat loss' side of the scale than what I just saw.

But it's just one deer. I'll shoot some more and see what happens. Am I making sense here?

 

[RockAndSage]

To qualify that statement on the shoulders being ruined, there is a difference in meat loss between a 30-06 that will RUIN the shoulders, and a 223 that will render the shoulders unusable. For me personally I'm not going to cut off small pieces of meat around a lead bullet's path to feed the young members of my family, so the results are the same (for me).

And yes I've also seen plenty of whitetail run an impressive distance without any heart or lungs, we all know they can do that. But if we're talking about a balanced scale between meat loss and time to incapacitation, I would prefer a load that performs on average on the 'dead quicker with more meat loss' side of the scale than what I just saw.

But it's just one deer. I'll shoot some more and see what happens. Am I making sense here?

Ah, gotcha. It does. And there's no replacement for getting out and just trying things like you're doing.

 

[BigThig09]

Popped my 5th victim so far with the green goblins yesterday evening. Large doe at 106 yards. My 7 year old daughter was sitting beside me and says she’s ready for the trigger now after watching it absolutely flatten that doe.

Interestingly enough, the first deer I’ve shot with the TMK that dropped, but when I say it was like lightning hit her I mean it. She never even flinched. Also the most damage I’ve seen from the TMK. Center of the shoulder, baseball sized hole in entry side ribs, opposite side ribs multiple smaller holes, and everything in between jellified beyond belief. No exit, but none needed.

I see a hobbit gun in 223 with TMKs in her future.

 

[Ashy Larry]

Second data point for the 77tmk. Shooting the black hills out of an 18” Wilson combat barrel AR. This was my target buck. 4-5 year old with one foot missing (a neighbor shot the foot off 3-4 years ago). 8.5” wide 9 point. I think this years rut had been hard on him, he weighed 115lbs dressed and had zero fat. He was 280 yards broadside for shot one. Just behind the shoulder in the crease and he dropped. He kicked for a second then pulled up with his front legs and turned the other way so o shot again and hit heart I think. I shot one more time and I think I hit backstrap with that shot, hard to tell with the lung/heart soup in the cavity. He died 25’ or so from the first shot, which was very ideal due to surrounding terrain and briar thickets. Likely no follow ups were needed but I didn’t want to track.

 

[lyle_destroys]

Well boys I’m in love. Pa rifle opener may be the only day I get to hunt until late season. 73gr eldm factory ammo. 50 yard shot between the shoulder blades on the buck. Dropped. Didn’t bother to look at the lungs, I could hear they were mush. Lost a little bit of backstrap. Also shot a doe broadside at 100, hole through both sides but I think the offside was frag. Went about 40, easy blood trail. Only lost some rib meat. Doe was 10 mins after the buck then had more deer feed through a few mins after that. I’ll never hunt without a suppressor again.

 

[robtattoo]

I actually remembered to have a look at my Buck's wound channel today.
Entry wound was low on the neck, on his left side. There was no exit, just a small cluster of copper & lead shrapnel under the skin on the left shoulder.

Entrance:


Exit:

Exit up close:


Entrance with muscle pulled back:


Exits side shoulder removed:



Right shoulder:


I'm honestly surprised how little meat I lost. I didn't remember a pic, but the spinal cord was completely severed, with noticeable damage to 2 separate vertebrae.

 

[Anschutz]

How are you going to post all of those pictures and no picture of the buck?

I actually remembered to have a look at my Buck's wound channel today.

 

[FredH]

I actually remembered to have a look at my Buck's wound channel today.
Entry wound was low on the neck, on his left side. There was no exit, just a small cluster of copper & lead shrapnel under the skin on the left shoulder.

Entrance:
View attachment 975623

Exit: View attachment 975620

Exit up close:
View attachment 975621

Entrance with muscle pulled back:
View attachment 975624

Exits side shoulder removed:
View attachment 975625


Right shoulder:
View attachment 975626View attachment 975627

I'm honestly surprised how little meat I lost. I didn't remember a pic, but the spinal cord was completely severed, with noticeable damage to 2 separate vertebrae.

Excellent bullet placement.

 

[robtattoo]

How are you going to post all of those pictures and no picture of the buck?

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...n-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-4434232

You gots to pay attention at this time of year. The thread move reeeeal quick!

 

[Anschutz]

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...n-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-4434232

You gots to pay attention at this time of year. The thread move reeeeal quick!

That it do. I thought as soon as I posted that it's probably been hanging a few days. I've been following since nearly the beginning, and read it in total through 250ish pages. I don't read every page anymore. Nice buck.

 

[Capt.Gene]

I prefer not to track blood into darkness and maybe still need to call in a dog. Give me the tool the higher percentage of eliminating that experience. I really am that old.
And while I put together a tack driver of a 22 Arc this year, because the ballistics look so great on paper, I have yet to hunt with it. I have more confidence shooting a 7mm Backcountry.

 

[Choupique]

prefer not to track blood into darkness

Maybe a highly frangible bullet is what you need?

I shoot whitetail with a .338 so I dont have the most hip advice but I know i rarely get bang-flops with the big gun unless I intentionally sacrifice some shoulder meat. Looks like lots of these guys are getting bang flops on lung shots which is super cool.

I shoot tough bullets, I imagine a frangible match bullet with 3,700 lbs of energy at impact would be a very messy affair.

Hope I can contribute some carnage shots to this thread next weekend.

 

[Anschutz]

Maybe a highly frangible bullet is what you need?

I shoot whitetail with a .338 so I dont have the most hip advice but I know i rarely get bang-flops with the big gun unless I intentionally sacrifice some shoulder meat. Looks like lots of these guys are getting bang flops on lung shots which is super cool.

I shoot tough bullets, I imagine a frangible match bullet with 3,700 lbs of energy at impact would be a very messy affair.

Hope I can contribute some carnage shots to this thread next weekend.

Deer do weird things sometimes. You shoot two deer the exact same and one flops while the other runs.

 

[nm.otter]

Deer do weird things sometimes. You shoot two deer the exact same and one flops while the other runs.

...on average.
Don't forget that one out of every twenty or so that does something entirely different.

 

[Choupique]

You shoot two deer the exact same and one flops while the other runs.

Yea that happens. Id expect inconsistency from small frangible bullets but it seems like the plastic tips do a lot to improve that. I havent seen every picture in this thread but it doesnt look like anyone gets penciling from TMK or ELD