.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Castle Rock]

Excited to try these puppies out
2.589 COAL
39 Grains of 4350

 

[Castle Rock]

sorry if it has been asked a bunch but so far I am only 80 some pages deep on this so it might take awhile to get right through. I will be picking up a tikka stainless varmint with a 8 twist .223 barrel on it. I have been seeing conflicting opinions on if the 75 eldm will work with a factory mag length tikka. I don’t want buy them just to find out I have to load them to long. I can’t find any 77gr TMK speer gold dots or 73gr eldm so if the 75’s would work that would be great. If the 75’s are a no go is there anymore good options?

They don’t work, just use 73s

 

[Big_wals]

I believe that he is in Canada. Might be more difficult to get up there.

Jay

Ah, guess I didn’t realize that.

 

[HGL]

The 75 eld-m is too long for the factory tikka mag unless it is modified. If you skip ahead look up post #7628 (or maybe it was #7648... somewhere in that range), Form lists all the 2.26" compatible bullets that have been found to be good performers

I saved the info Form posted to my load data sheet for quick access, the info is below:

2.26” coal compatible and generally available:
77gr TMK
69gr TMK (sufficient, but less penetration)
73gr ELD-M (sufficient but TC isn’t as long)
77gr Berger OTM (higher upset velocity required)
85gr Barnes MatchBurner (good wound channels with a longer neck length)
62gr Federal Fusion (lower BC)
62 and 75gr Speer Gold Dot (62gr identical to Fusion, 75gr very good wounding)

Potentially the AAC 75gr Saber.

Not 2.26” compatible:
88gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-M
75gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-X

That’s about it for the major ones, though I’m sure there are one or two I am missing. The 77gr TMK is more like the high water mark for all around performance, though it is not the sole good .224 bullet.

 

[Poe]

I believe that he is in Canada. Might be more difficult to get up there.

Jay

Yep sorry I should have added that. I am in Canada

 

[Poe]

I saved the info Form posted to my load data sheet for quick access, the info is below:

2.26” coal compatible and generally available:
77gr TMK
69gr TMK (sufficient, but less penetration)
73gr ELD-M (sufficient but TC isn’t as long)
77gr Berger OTM (higher upset velocity required)
85gr Barnes MatchBurner (good wound channels with a longer neck length)
62gr Federal Fusion (lower BC)
62 and 75gr Speer Gold Dot (62gr identical to Fusion, 75gr very good wounding)

Potentially the AAC 75gr Saber.

Not 2.26” compatible:
88gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-M
75gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-X

That’s about it for the major ones, though I’m sure there are one or two I am missing. The 77gr TMK is more like the high water mark for all around performance, though it is not the sole good .224 bullet.

Perfect thank you very much

 

[Lawnboi]

As far as 223 goes, are y’all chambering in Wylde or straight 223 when rebarreling?

I’d go wylde, preferably with a 7 or 7.5 twist. Paired with a longer mag in the tikka this will allow the most flexibility.

If all you want is to shoot factory length ammo, out of a factory mag, I’d probably still go wylde.

 

[pbroski]

Yep sorry I should have added that. I am in Canada

73 ELD-M's in stock.

Hornady - Reloading Bullets - 22 Cal .224 73 gr ELD® Match Item #22774 | 100/Box

Hornady - Reloading Bullets - 22 Cal .224 73 gr ELD® Match Item #22774 | 100/Box are available now from Tesro Canada

www.tesro.ca

Hornady Bullet ELD Match | Sporteque

Hornady Bullet ELD Match for sales at Sportèque in Drummondville Québec Canada.

sporteque.ca

 

[Old-Cat]

I’d go wylde, preferably with a 7 or 7.5 twist. Paired with a longer mag in the tikka this will allow the most flexibility.

If all you want is to shoot factory length ammo, out of a factory mag, I’d probably still go wylde.

Ty sir

 

[Poe]

I saved the info Form posted to my load data sheet for quick access, the info is below:

2.26” coal compatible and generally available:
77gr TMK
69gr TMK (sufficient, but less penetration)
73gr ELD-M (sufficient but TC isn’t as long)
77gr Berger OTM (higher upset velocity required)
85gr Barnes MatchBurner (good wound channels with a longer neck length)
62gr Federal Fusion (lower BC)
62 and 75gr Speer Gold Dot (62gr identical to Fusion, 75gr very good wounding)

Potentially the AAC 75gr Saber.

Not 2.26” compatible:
88gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-M
75gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-X

That’s about it for the major ones, though I’m sure there are one or two I am missing. The 77gr TMK is more like the high water mark for all around performance, though it is not the sole good .224 bullet.

I see it’s not on this list but so far I have read of a few people using the Hornady 75gr bthp with good success. Would this be a good option or should I keep looking for other options.

 

[eoperator]

Yeah, it’s fine. But if you’re paying someone to chamber a barrel, it doesn’t cost more to have them do it such that you don’t have to stuff the bullet so deep in the case. Maybe if a guy is using factory ammo alone it doesn’t matter but even in that case I’d want a wylde over SAAMI to shoot 556 ammo at lower pressure so you don’t get sticky bolt lift like my factory tikka tube did with 556 ammo. If you’re hand loading, you can get more velocity, less compressed loads, not have the shank centered up in the donut area, etc. It all might very well amount to zero statistical difference in hitting targets but if I’m paying the price of a full tikka for a new barrel there’s no reason not to take the easy optimizations that are available.

The wylde chamber wouldnt be so common if the 223 rem was better for shooting

These are my thoughts exactly, I described intended use of the barrel it was recommended by the gunsmith to use a reamer made specifically for 223/80g smk. He described the reamer as a 223 wylde'ish and allows 77tmk's to be seated out to 2.45" that pairs nicely with mdt aics mags that are 2.55".

Bought a bunch of 80g eldm yesterday, at half the price and better bc than 77tmks. Readily available also.

 

[HGL]

I see it’s not on this list but so far I have read of a few people using the Hornady 75gr bthp with good success. Would this be a good option or should I keep looking for other options.

Unfortunately, I have no experience with that bullet. I have a .223 Wylde built on an AR platform, so I'm limited on coal as well. I've only tried the 68 BTHP version, great accuracy though, so if the 75 works with your coal and twist, I'd try it. I have not used it on game though, just getting going with the .223 project.

 

[Poe]

Unfortunately, I have no experience with that bullet. I have a .223 Wylde built on an AR platform, so I'm limited on coal as well. I've only tried the 68 BTHP version, great accuracy though, so if the 75 works with your coal and twist, I'd try it. I have not used it on game though, just getting going with the .223 project.

Thanks for the info. I’m hoping I can find a couple bullets that I can actually get my hands on that people have been having good results with on game performance. 95% of my shooting with this rifle will be on steel and coyotes but I don’t want to have to switch loads when I do decide to go after larger game. I’m also a big fan of doing my own on game testing instead of relying on other peoples opinions on forums but there is such a large amount of on game testing on this thread it’s dumb to ignore it. I also get a very limited amount of deer tags that it would take me years to get a good baseline.

 

[Big_wals]

I see it’s not on this list but so far I have read of a few people using the Hornady 75gr bthp with good success. Would this be a good option or should I keep looking for other options.

I’ve shot quite a few hogs with them. Nothing at very long range, so I cant speak to how they would perform at lower impact velocity. So far everything has been inside of 125ish yards, and they have performed well at that range/velocity.

 

[ztc92]

I see it’s not on this list but so far I have read of a few people using the Hornady 75gr bthp with good success. Would this be a good option or should I keep looking for other options.

I use the bullet often for practice, often buying the frontier loads that are cheap and readily available. As far as hunting with it, I don’t think it’s in the same tier as the bullets that come more highly recommended. Read the post below and then the subsequent 10 posts to see the discussion around this bullet from a few years ago.

Last night I shot a whitetail doe with my .223. The only reason I did is that I wanted to use the suppressor (hunting location very close to city limits) and my .223 is the only thing threaded for it right now.

I used a Hornady 75gr BTHP as I had experience with it on groundhogs and it showed good expansion and penetration and I had them loaded. Also some video of this bullet in ballistic gel on youtube showed good performance. Not quite as much or as rapid expansion as the 77gr TMK but pretty good:

Shot was around 30 yards. Impact velocity was probably around 2600 fps. I waited for a perfect broadside shot as this was my first time using the .223 on medium game and put it right behind the shoulder and about mid-height (my normal shot placement).

The doe bounced up into the edge of the woods then and walked up the side of the hill twitching her tail. She stood up on the side of the hill twitching her tail. At this point I am thinking I must have hit the dead tree that was framing the shot as she was still standing and had been walking up the hill not running like most deer I shoot (perhaps that was due to the suppressor). I decided I need to figure out what happened rather than wait for another deer to come out and take another shot if something is wrong with my setup and start sneaking towards where she was standing when I shot. I think I was about halfway to the spot when I heard/saw the deer fall over. She then lay on the ground and kept trying to pick her head up. It reminded me of a deer shot with a bow if you've ever watched one die - so I knew she was going to die.

I proceeded to the point of impact and there was no blood anywhere. I snuck up into the edge of the woods and she was piled against a tree dead.

Upon gutting, I found the top of one lung to be destroyed and there was food/blood etc. below the diaphragm like I had shot it in the liver. Did not inspect the liver as everything was a mess at that point. Was trying to figure out how I had done that as I had been very careful with the shot location and that she was perfectly broadside.

Upon skinning, I found that the bullet had impacted exactly where I aimed (relief) but had bounced off a rib, deflected rearward, broken the next rib, and then entered. This was very clear. You could stick you finger in the small entrance wound and feel the intact rib, a path to the rear and then the broken and a small entrance wound to the cavity. The deflection to the rear is how the bullet ended up in the liver. There was no exit wound and I did not recover the bullet. It or parts of it must be in the gut pile.

The animal is dead but I feel like I got lucky. I barely clipped the top of 1 lung with a well placed broadside shot. Very disappointed that the bullet deflected off a rib rather than breaking the rib. Very disappointed that the bullet deflected from the path through the body I chose and made a mess of the guts. Very, very, disappointed. Not that concerned about the lack of exit wound.

This is my data. I have some opinions. What do you guys think of my experience and how should I avoid repeating it? I am NOT happy with what happened. This was a well placed shot and I want 2 mushed lungs.

Pre-emptively, if you tell me a 77gr TMK would be totally different, I'm going to want an explanation how one 77gr chunk of metal will break a rib and one 75gr chunk of metal will bounce off. Perhaps use these 2 videos in your explanation:
77gr TMK:

75gr BTHP:

 

[Brazo264]

These are my thoughts exactly, I described intended use of the barrel it was recommended by the gunsmith to use a reamer made specifically for 223/80g smk. He described the reamer as a 223 wylde'ish and allows 77tmk's to be seated out to 2.45" that pairs nicely with mdt aics mags that are 2.55".

Bought a bunch of 80g eldm yesterday, at half the price and better bc than 77tmks. Readily available also.

Will those 80gr work with the factory 1-8” twist or is it a try and see type of deal? COAL limitations not withstanding.

 

[eoperator]

Will those 80gr work with the factory 1-8” twist or is it a try and see type of deal? COAL limitations not withstanding.

Hornady recommends 1-8 for the 80g eldm.

As listed above much better options are available for sammi chambers.

 

[Brazo264]

Hornady recommends 1-8 for the 80g eldm.

As listed above much better options are available for sammi chambers.

Thanks man

 

[TimberHunter]

I saw the post from Form at I think 1440 fps impact vel with the 77TMK. Are/were there any other examples of sub 1800 fps impacts with the 77? Or any of the heavy Hornady .224 bullets?

I want a 223 tikka but trying to rationalize the purchase to ensure I be comfortable using them at my typical hunting distance of 300-600 yards (6.5cm with 143 has been my go to in the past)

 

[atmat]

I saw the post from Form at I think 1440 fps impact vel with the 77TMK. Are/were there any other examples of sub 1800 fps impacts with the 77? Or any of the heavy Hornady .224 bullets?

I want a 223 tikka but trying to rationalize the purchase to ensure I be comfortable using them at my typical hunting distance of 300-600 yards (6.5cm with 143 has been my go to in the past)

Even if you don’t hunt with it, it’s a reasonable purchase. Ammo/supplies are so cheap, that if you’re a volume shooter it’s cheaper to buy a 223 than reload just about anything else.