.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Shotgunman28]

77 TMK at about 2700 fps on a largeish (400 pound) hog that refuseed to cooperate after I put his pen mate down with a 22 lr. Shot hit behind the right eye socket, punched through the cranial vault and out the other side, the bullet was found between the offside skull and fat while cutting off the jowl bacon. I was going to halve it with a sawzall, but is the skull crunched, decided to dissect down.

The skull was literally fractured in half.

For reference, a 410 just punches a caliber sized whole through the skull. Unfortunately I can say from experience that a 410 that misses the cranial valt will not stun a pig, a 77 TMK that misses will still stun it with performance very similar to a correctly placed 22 lr.

Reference of a smaller pig stunned with a 22 lr, you can actually see the remains of the 22 bullet between the skull and brain, it lacked the force to puncture the membranes around the brain after going through the skull, which is why a 22 only stuns them.
View attachment 758013


Finger is on the entry, knife tip on the exit, the jowls have already been removed, so an inth of tissue is missing on the exit side.View attachment 758012View attachment 758011View attachment 758010

The bullet, in this case it tis not completely come apart and the lead remained in the base. There was also a slurry of lead flakes in the area the bullet stopped.View attachment 758009

View attachment 758005View attachment 758008

Those are chuncks of solid bone that were fractured and I could flip up with my fingers.
View attachment 758007

The tip of the knife is touching the first bit of solid bone towards the nose and my finger is inline with the first bit of solid bone towards the back. I could rock the front and back independently and feel the bottom of the cranial vault was shattered similarly to the top with my fingers.
View attachment 758006

This skull had fractures through areas more than 1 inch thick, this is solid bone, not hollow bones with marrow like the legs/ribs/pelvis.

I am beyond impressed. The bullet itself passed through 1.5 inches of bone.

And these are the walking tanks everyone says have a shield for a shoulder blade. The right bullet in the right spot.. night, night

 

[Marbles]

And these are the walking tanks everyone says have a shield for a shoulder blade. The right bullet in the right spot.. night, night

The guy I slaughtered for today had previously done his own with bad results after shooting between the eyes (a shot that misses the brain, and results in a very pissed pig). He thought the bullets had bounced off. Having made that same crappy shot in the past and having cut the heads in half with a sawzall, I can say for sure they did not bounce, just bad shot placement due to anatomy that differs from expectations.

Pigs have vitals that are pretty small in relation to their body length. I don't believe in the "shield" being able to stop a bullet, I do believe in bad shot placement leading people to believe some animals are bullet proof.

Not my goat, but I watched a mountain goat take two rounds to the body, fall 20-40 feet and roll hundreds of feet down a mountain, then stand up. A third shot hit the vitals and finished him in under 30 seconds. The first two shots destroyed a good bit of backstrap, but nothing else. If the goat had not been torn up from the fall and having a match bullet shred a good bit of muscle and had been able to run, probably would have been another story of a bullet proof goat and needing a bigger round.

The same bullet in the vitals on another goat resulted in it dying were it lay.

 

[Thegman]

77 TMK at about 2700 fps on a largeish (400 pound) hog that refuseed to cooperate after I put his pen mate down with a 22 lr. Shot hit behind the right eye socket, punched through the cranial vault and out the other side, the bullet was found between the offside skull and fat while cutting off the jowl bacon. I was going to halve it with a sawzall, but is the skull crunched, decided to dissect down.

The skull was literally fractured in half.

For reference, a 410 just punches a caliber sized whole through the skull. Unfortunately I can say from experience that a 410 that misses the cranial valt will not stun a pig, a 77 TMK that misses will still stun it with performance very similar to a correctly placed 22 lr.

Reference of a smaller pig stunned with a 22 lr, you can actually see the remains of the 22 bullet between the skull and brain, it lacked the force to puncture the membranes around the brain after going through the skull, which is why a 22 only stuns them.
View attachment 758013


Finger is on the entry, knife tip on the exit, the jowls have already been removed, so an inth of tissue is missing on the exit side.View attachment 758012View attachment 758011View attachment 758010

The bullet, in this case it tis not completely come apart and the lead remained in the base. There was also a slurry of lead flakes in the area the bullet stopped.View attachment 758009

View attachment 758005View attachment 758008

Those are chuncks of solid bone that were fractured and I could flip up with my fingers.
View attachment 758007

The tip of the knife is touching the first bit of solid bone towards the nose and my finger is inline with the first bit of solid bone towards the back. I could rock the front and back independently and feel the bottom of the cranial vault was shattered similarly to the top with my fingers.
View attachment 758006

This skull had fractures through areas more than 1 inch thick, this is solid bone, not hollow bones with marrow like the legs/ribs/pelvis.

I am beyond impressed. The bullet itself passed through 1.5 inches of bone.

Now this here is some full on redneck shit...

God Bless America! (and Marbles)

 

[Shotgunman28]

The guy I slaughtered for today had previously done his own with bad results after shooting between the eyes (a shot that misses the brain, and results in a very pissed pig). He thought the bullets had bounced off. Having made that same crappy shot in the past and having cut the heads in half with a sawzall, I can say for sure they did not bounce, just bad shot placement due to anatomy that differs from expectations.

Pigs have vitals that are pretty far forward and small in relation to their body length. I don't believe in the "shield" being able to stop a bullet, I do believe in bad shot placement leading people to believe some animals are bullet proof.

Not my goat, but I watched a mountain goat take two rounds to the body, fall 20-40 feet and roll hundreds of feet down a mountain, then stand up. A third shot hit the vitals and finished him in under 30 seconds. The first two shots destroyed a good bit of backstrap, but nothing else. If the goat had not been torn up from the fall and having a match bullet shred a good bit of muscle and had been able to run, probably would have been another story of a bullet proof goat and needing a bigger round.

The same bullet in the vitals on another goat resulted in it dying were it lay.

Exactly put it where it’s supposed to go and you’re good

 

[Shotgunman28]

Excited to try these puppies out
2.589 COAL
39 Grains of 4350

 

[wind gypsy]

Straight ftw

My recent one is wylde but there are even more optimized options for a bolt action shooting 75+ grain bullets IMO. Definitely wouldn’t do SAAMI if intending to shoot heavies.

 

[atmat]

My recent one is wylde but there are even more optimized options for a bolt action shooting 75+ grain bullets IMO. Definitely wouldn’t do SAAMI if intending to shoot heavies.

What are you wanting to shoot? SAAMI is fine for the TMKs, and that’s good enough for me.

 

[wind gypsy]

What are you wanting to shoot? SAAMI is fine for the TMKs, and that’s good enough for me.

Yeah, it’s fine. But if you’re paying someone to chamber a barrel, it doesn’t cost more to have them do it such that you don’t have to stuff the bullet so deep in the case. Maybe if a guy is using factory ammo alone it doesn’t matter but even in that case I’d want a wylde over SAAMI to shoot 556 ammo at lower pressure so you don’t get sticky bolt lift like my factory tikka tube did with 556 ammo. If you’re hand loading, you can get more velocity, less compressed loads, not have the shank centered up in the donut area, etc. It all might very well amount to zero statistical difference in hitting targets but if I’m paying the price of a full tikka for a new barrel there’s no reason not to take the easy optimizations that are available.

The wylde chamber wouldnt be so common if the 223 rem was better for shooting heavies accurately.

Edit: @atmat I meant to respond to @Old-Cat, wasn’t trying to start an argument.

 

[Poe]

sorry if it has been asked a bunch but so far I am only 80 some pages deep on this so it might take awhile to get right through. I will be picking up a tikka stainless varmint with a 8 twist .223 barrel on it. I have been seeing conflicting opinions on if the 75 eldm will work with a factory mag length tikka. I don’t want buy them just to find out I have to load them to long. I can’t find any 77gr TMK speer gold dots or 73gr eldm so if the 75’s would work that would be great. If the 75’s are a no go is there anymore good options?

 

[Moose83]

sorry if it has been asked a bunch but so far I am only 80 some pages deep on this so it might take awhile to get right through. I will be picking up a tikka stainless varmint with a 8 twist .223 barrel on it. I have been seeing conflicting opinions on if the 75 eldm will work with a factory mag length tikka. I don’t want buy them just to find out I have to load them to long. I can’t find any 77gr TMK speer gold dots or 73gr eldm so if the 75’s would work that would be great. If the 75’s are a no go is there anymore good options?

The 75 eld-m is too long for the factory tikka mag unless it is modified. If you skip ahead look up post #7628 (or maybe it was #7648... somewhere in that range), Form lists all the 2.26" compatible bullets that have been found to be good performers

 

[Big_wals]

I can’t find any 77gr TMK speer gold dots or 73gr eldm

73 eldms are in stock at blue collar reloading.

 

[The Guide]

73 eldms are in stock at blue collar reloading.

I believe that he is in Canada. Might be more difficult to get up there.

Jay

 

[Castle Rock]

Excited to try these puppies out
2.589 COAL
39 Grains of 4350

 

[Castle Rock]

sorry if it has been asked a bunch but so far I am only 80 some pages deep on this so it might take awhile to get right through. I will be picking up a tikka stainless varmint with a 8 twist .223 barrel on it. I have been seeing conflicting opinions on if the 75 eldm will work with a factory mag length tikka. I don’t want buy them just to find out I have to load them to long. I can’t find any 77gr TMK speer gold dots or 73gr eldm so if the 75’s would work that would be great. If the 75’s are a no go is there anymore good options?

They don’t work, just use 73s

 

[Big_wals]

I believe that he is in Canada. Might be more difficult to get up there.

Jay

Ah, guess I didn’t realize that.

 

[HGL]

The 75 eld-m is too long for the factory tikka mag unless it is modified. If you skip ahead look up post #7628 (or maybe it was #7648... somewhere in that range), Form lists all the 2.26" compatible bullets that have been found to be good performers

I saved the info Form posted to my load data sheet for quick access, the info is below:

2.26” coal compatible and generally available:
77gr TMK
69gr TMK (sufficient, but less penetration)
73gr ELD-M (sufficient but TC isn’t as long)
77gr Berger OTM (higher upset velocity required)
85gr Barnes MatchBurner (good wound channels with a longer neck length)
62gr Federal Fusion (lower BC)
62 and 75gr Speer Gold Dot (62gr identical to Fusion, 75gr very good wounding)

Potentially the AAC 75gr Saber.

Not 2.26” compatible:
88gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-M
75gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-X

That’s about it for the major ones, though I’m sure there are one or two I am missing. The 77gr TMK is more like the high water mark for all around performance, though it is not the sole good .224 bullet.

 

[Poe]

I believe that he is in Canada. Might be more difficult to get up there.

Jay

Yep sorry I should have added that. I am in Canada

 

[Poe]

I saved the info Form posted to my load data sheet for quick access, the info is below:

2.26” coal compatible and generally available:
77gr TMK
69gr TMK (sufficient, but less penetration)
73gr ELD-M (sufficient but TC isn’t as long)
77gr Berger OTM (higher upset velocity required)
85gr Barnes MatchBurner (good wound channels with a longer neck length)
62gr Federal Fusion (lower BC)
62 and 75gr Speer Gold Dot (62gr identical to Fusion, 75gr very good wounding)

Potentially the AAC 75gr Saber.

Not 2.26” compatible:
88gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-M
75gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-X

That’s about it for the major ones, though I’m sure there are one or two I am missing. The 77gr TMK is more like the high water mark for all around performance, though it is not the sole good .224 bullet.

Perfect thank you very much

 

[Lawnboi]

As far as 223 goes, are y’all chambering in Wylde or straight 223 when rebarreling?

I’d go wylde, preferably with a 7 or 7.5 twist. Paired with a longer mag in the tikka this will allow the most flexibility.

If all you want is to shoot factory length ammo, out of a factory mag, I’d probably still go wylde.

 

[pbroski]

Yep sorry I should have added that. I am in Canada

73 ELD-M's in stock.

Hornady - Reloading Bullets - 22 Cal .224 73 gr ELD® Match Item #22774 | 100/Box

Hornady - Reloading Bullets - 22 Cal .224 73 gr ELD® Match Item #22774 | 100/Box are available now from Tesro Canada

www.tesro.ca

Hornady Bullet ELD Match | Sporteque

Hornady Bullet ELD Match for sales at Sportèque in Drummondville Québec Canada.

sporteque.ca