.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[eric1115]

When you found her were the insides mush or did it pencil through? I heard the bullet smack her. Bummer deal when it happens.


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Mush lungs. Probably 4 separate fragments exited. If I showed you the damage you'd have guessed she tipped right over. Deer do funny things when hit sometimes, and this one just happened to run a long ways.

 

[Marbles]

I paid 1.40 for my last 2000.
More then I wanted to pay which is 1.00 but 1.40 wasnt more then I was willing to pay to have.
When I need more hopefully they are cheaper.
Hornady 73 eld-m is 0.95 some places right now.

Shoots pretty ok out of my factory tikka on the new lot I tested yesterday.
View attachment 629180

Makes me feel better about buying all the reloading kit, if I don't reuse brass, I'm at 0.95, if I get 5 uses out of the brass that comes down to 0.75.

Of course, locally ELD-Ms are 1.50 or more and I don't know if I would ever find loaded TMKs, so I already felt good about that $900 investment.

 

[Lawnboi]

Mush lungs. Probably 4 separate fragments exited. If I showed you the damage you'd have guessed she tipped right over. Deer do funny things when hit sometimes, and this one just happened to run a long ways.

Once in a while you get one that has the will to live. Seems like 1 in 10 no matter how good the hit just run, and not only with the 223

 

[eric1115]

Once in a while you get one that has the will to live. Seems like 1 in 10 no matter how good the hit just run, and not only with the 223

For sure, I've seen well hit runners with 12 gauge slugs, .30 cals, 6.5s, everything really. This was last year, just wanted to provide that context to the guy who didn't end up finding his the other night.

 

[Marbles]

Once in a while you get one that has the will to live. Seems like 1 in 10 no matter how good the hit just run, and not only with the 223

Honestly, some of it is not just will but luck. From a lung perspective, a human with healthy lungs has well over twice the capacity needed to sustain life. If you trash the lungs, but do not cut a major airway or vessel, and don't get a tension pneumo/hemo it is slow'ish (minutes to hours) to kill as pulmonary contusions bloom and other pathologies sap physiologic reserve.

I've seen a black bear shot with a light arrow with a mechanical head that died within 50 feet, the arrow did not pernitrate the mediastinum, however it cut the hilum. The shooter felt the arrow hit too far back, so it was luck in how the shot was pulled, not skill alone that resulted in a quick death. With that arrow, if the shot had been further forward, it would have just taken out the upper lobe of the lung and it is conceivable the bear would have lived.

Mediastinum: The middle compartment in the chest that contains the heart, throat, and other structures.
Hilum: Location where the large bronchi, pulmonary arteries, and pulmonary veins are all clustered together.

 

[Lawnboi]

Honestly, some of it is not just will but luck. From a lung perspective, a human with healthy lungs has well over twice the capacity needed to sustain life. If you trash the lungs, but do not cut a major airway or vessel, and don't get a tension pneumo/hemo it is slow'ish (minutes to hours) to kill as pulmonary contusions bloom and other pathologies sap physiologic reserve.

I've seen a black bear shot with a light arrow with a mechanical head that died within 50 feet, the arrow did not pernitrate the mediastinum, however it cut the hilum. The shooter felt the arrow hit too far back, so it was luck in how the shot was pulled, not skill alone that resulted in a quick death. With that arrow, if the shot had been further forward, it would have just taken out the upper lobe of the lung and it is conceivable the bear would have lived.

Mediastinum: The middle compartment in the chest that contains the heart, throat, and other structures.
Hilum: Location where the large bronchi, pulmonary arteries, and pulmonary veins are all clustered together.

I can’t explain it. Most don’t make it far without a heart until your shoot that one that defies all logic.

 

[Reburn]

Makes me feel better about buying all the reloading kit, if I don't reuse brass, I'm at 0.95, if I get 5 uses out of the brass that comes down to 0.75.

Of course, locally ELD-Ms are 1.50 or more and I don't know if I would ever find loaded TMKs, so I already felt good about that $900 investment.

For me. Not worth it for the volume stuff. I buy most of my ammo if the gun likes it. Reloading can save money but at the expense of time. My time is the only thing in my life I can't make more of. I can make more money.

 

[Jake Leibke]

Another data point.

223 77 TMK 1950 impact velocity
No exit hole. I did pull lungs heart out but forgot to snap a pic. Major damage to lungs, heart intact yet. Lots of blood loss. Deer went about 50-60 yards.

Entrance :

Entrance shoulder removed :

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[pattimusprime22]

For those of you shooting factory black hills 77tmks out of 223 tikkas, are you buying the 223 remington, or 5.56 flavor? Is the increased pressure of the 5.56 loading not an issue with 223 tikkas?

I'll start by saying I have already shot some black hills 5.56 77tmks out of my 223 tikka without issue, but wondering if this is a bad idea going forward.

 

[Marbles]

For those of you shooting factory black hills 77tmks out of 223 tikkas, are you buying the 223 remington, or 5.56 flavor? Is the increased pressure of the 5.56 loading not an issue with 223 tikkas?

I'll start by saying I have already shot some black hills 5.56 77tmks out of my 223 tikka without issue, but wondering if this is a bad idea going forward.

Tikkas 223 chamber is closer to a 223 Wylde than a 223 Rem chamber (I cast mine the other night out of curiosity). Lots of people report shooting 5.56 without issue.

 

[pattimusprime22]

For those of you shooting factory black hills 77tmks out of 223 tikkas, are you buying the 223 remington, or 5.56 flavor? Is the increased pressure of the 5.56 loading not an issue with 223 tikkas?

I'll start by saying I have already shot some black hills 5.56 77tmks out of my 223 tikka without issue, but wondering if this is a bad idea going forward.

NVM, I found my answer here: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/do-you-223-too.116101/page-3#post-1296285

I really need to use the search feature more...

 

[houser52]

Took this 8 pt. 11-18-2023. 223, 77 TMK, 220 yds. 2173 fps velocity at impact.

Deer went straight down and when I got to him he was still moving. Final shot to the skull with a 32 ACP handgun to put him down for good.

A couple buddies and I looked for either an entry or exit but couldn’t find either one. Not a drop of blood anywhere.
Dropped him off at the processor and had them look where he was hit and they said it was a heart shot but I didn’t see it to confirm.

None the less, I‘ll be having steaks, chops and sausage in a few days. The 77 TMK did its job.

 

[BAC]

For sure, I've seen well hit runners with 12 gauge slugs, .30 cals, 6.5s, everything really. This was last year, just wanted to provide that context to the guy who didn't end up finding his the other night.

I've been watching more videos on good shots that still result in runners and there is basically no rhyme or reason that I can tell. I'd guess some animals just have more blood primed in the system, more oxygen from a breath in that particular moment, or just plain more will to live than others. Watching a 6.5 grendel drop an elk on the spot with a double lung shot on one hunt, and the same guy put in the same bullet in the same place with the same injuries on a much smaller deer, the deer books it.

Side note, I think this makes another very solid case for being able to spot your hits, so that you can track an animal through the scope and at the very least get a last-known direction.

 

[roosiebull]

I've been watching more videos on good shots that still result in runners and there is basically no rhyme or reason that I can tell. I'd guess some animals just have more blood primed in the system, more oxygen from a breath in that particular moment, or just plain more will to live than others. Watching a 6.5 grendel drop an elk on the spot with a double lung shot and put in the same place with the same injuries on a much smaller deer, the deer books it.

Side note, I think this makes another very solid case for being able to spot your hits, so that you can track an animal through the scope and at the very least get a last-known direction.

Some are just going to run unless it’s a CNS disruption regardless of what it’s hit with… case in point

 

[BlackHillsShooter]

I've been watching more videos on good shots that still result in runners and there is basically no rhyme or reason that I can tell. I'd guess some animals just have more blood primed in the system, more oxygen from a breath in that particular moment, or just plain more will to live than others. Watching a 6.5 grendel drop an elk on the spot with a double lung shot and put in the same place with the same injuries on a much smaller deer, the deer books it.

Side note, I think this makes another very solid case for being able to spot your hits, so that you can track an animal through the scope and at the very least get a last-known direction.

I agree with this. The deer I shot, I watched fold up like it was on TV. I have been used to the view getting bounced for a long time.

 

[Tmac]

Grandson’s first buck. 77 gr. TMK out of a 223 at about 125 yards. Kicked at the shot and ran off. No blood or hair we could find. It’s a jungle there. Turned out he ran in a semi circle about 15-20 yards. We found him after about 20 minutes of looking. Insides were red goo. Entry and exit low in chest, not really visible until skinned. Was a little bit of a heart I recognized, lungs converted to red goo.

When we finished boning it out the next day, we lost some of both shoulders, my grandson says I want a bullet that does less damage. He is all about the meat. So a discussion ensued as to why I picked what I did for his hunt. Told him we wanted max damage to keep any blacktail from running too far in that jungle, and it worked. Asked him how do you think it would have went if he could have ran 50-75 yards? He said not well. Lol.

 

[Jake Leibke]

I should add to my previous posts, #5232 and 5255, these were shot with the American Bullet Co. branded TMK’s from Creedmoor Sports. Have not shot a critter with a “regular” TMK but performance seems on par from what others have posted.


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[roosiebull]

Grandson’s first buck. 77 gr. TMK out of a 223 at about 125 yards. Kicked at the shot and ran off. No blood or hair we could find. It’s a jungle there. Turned out he ran in a semi circle about 15-20 yards. We found him after about 20 minutes of looking. Insides were red goo. Entry and exit low in chest, not really visible until skinned. Was a little bit of a heart I recognized, lungs converted to red goo.

When we finished boning it out the next day, we lost some of both shoulders, my grandson says I want a bullet that does less damage. He is all about the meat. So a discussion ensued as to why I picked what I did for his hunt. Told him we wanted max damage to keep any blacktail from running too far in that jungle, and it worked. Asked him how do you think it would have went if he could have ran 50-75 yards? He said not well. Lol.

The only consistent way I have found to not lose much meat is shoot them in the neck. Have a buddy who does one better and head shoots almost everything, but I haven’t warmed up to that myself

I have lost a lot of the front shoulders even with monos, hit any bone and all bets are off even with meat friendly projectiles… I assume a 45-70 or something, might be easy on meat regardless, or buckshot, but any normal rifle cartridge has potential to make a mess

Neck shooting, it seems most of the time, you only lose the wound channel itself, blood shot doesn’t generally spread like it does in the shoulder.

Well done! Next year I will be knocking a blacktail down with a tmk

 

[Trapperkid]

first animal with the tmk no deer but I killed a deer killer 150 yards neck shot fell over and never kicked I watched the whole thing through the scope.

 

[mt terry d]

The only consistent way I have found to not lose much meat is shoot them in the neck. Have a buddy who does one better and head shoots almost everything, but I haven’t warmed up to that myself

I have lost a lot of the front shoulders even with monos, hit any bone and all bets are off even with meat friendly projectiles… I assume a 45-70 or something, might be easy on meat regardless, or buckshot, but any normal rifle cartridge has potential to make a mess

Neck shooting, it seems most of the time, you only lose the wound channel itself, blood shot doesn’t generally spread like it does in the shoulder.

Well done! Next year I will be knocking a blacktail down with a tmk

My first experience with the 77 TMK ( see post 5215) was much different than anything I've shot previously with my 7mm WBY or 300WM. I would have written off the off shoulder with either of those rounds. Granted, as I mentioned, this is my first kill with the TMK but the results are very encouraging in every respect. IMO, lots of room for error (failure to kill) on broadside neck shots if not placed close to the skull and head shots, well, I still have nightmares.