.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Benjblt]

High velocity impact with expanding bullets will cause bloodshot damage even with monometal and bonded bullets. The extent of it depends on the impact velocity and the shot placement. Sometimes bone fragmentation is worse than the bullets!

Jay

I've shot a few, yes only a few, deer at 50 to 75 yards with a barnes 165 grain out of a 300 Win. Almost zero blood shot relative to any lead bullet I've shot. That said, I've not shot solid shoulder so I'm not disputing what you say. I'd just say the difference is vast.

The bloodshot we see with fragmentation of bullets is directly related to the severe damage that so effectively kills. I totally get it. I don't think mono metal bullets kill as well for that very reason except where everything depends on a certain amount of penetration that a lead core bullet can't provide.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

My point was those bullets suck. The 77 grain sierras I mean. You can have the same problem with most any caliber. But if you don't mind bloodshot meat then it's not a problem.

I know guys that shot 35 AI's and they never blood shot. . That often times what a slower 275 grain bullet will do for you. I don't think a larger caliber is going backwards. Definitely less shootable than a 223 though.

I haven't read the entire thread. There are several thousand comments so I'm sure I've missed something...other than how those pictures looked.

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It’s worth reading. If you don’t want so much tissue damage, shoot a different bullet. That’s been explained ad nauseam in this thread.

 

[Drenalin]

What’s the purpose? Not that you have to have one, just curious.

Deer and black bear, 300 yards and in. I get the opportunity to hunt a property along a busy road in a residential area a few times a year. Would be nice to have a rifle that tucks inside a pack there, and is suppressed so the property owner’s phone doesn’t blow up every time I shoot.

 

[justinspicher]

That’s pretty awesome. You could do a 13.7/14.5” with a folding stock and it would be pretty handy as well. Depending on your muzzle adaptor, if you P/W it, it would be a legal 16” gun and you wouldn’t have to worry about the SBR issues. Just a thought…….

Either way, that’s pretty rad and I dig it.

 

[rbutcher1234]

This whole thread has me thinking hard about a 10.5” suppressed AR.

Absolutely do it! They are lethal to distances that would surprise lots of people.

 

[ElPollo]

I've shot a few, yes only a few, deer at 50 to 75 yards with a barnes 165 grain out of a 300 Win. Almost zero blood shot relative to any lead bullet I've shot. That said, I've not shot solid shoulder so I'm not disputing what you say. I'd just say the difference is vast.

The bloodshot we see with fragmentation of bullets is directly related to the severe damage that so effectively kills. I totally get it. I don't think mono metal bullets kill as well for that very reason except where everything depends on a certain amount of penetration that a lead core bullet can't provide.

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I shot monos for several years and have since stopped. I understand your thoughts about meat loss but killing an animal requires damage and it’s all about where you inflict that damage. My issue with monos was that the damage and expansion was not consistent beyond about 200 yards. If you don’t shoot anything further than that, they can work if you stay away from the older TSX bullets. Those can pencil at any speed. I have a friend who has used them well, but he is doing so at about 3200 fps. Personally, I would rather kill things quickly without so much powder, recoil, and blast. But you do what works for you.

 

[fwafwow]

My RS Special build is in the home stretch (barrel cutting and threading next week), so I'm wasting lots of time with analysis paralysis. I don't reload. Although I have 100 rounds of 77 TMKs, I'm thinking about the practice rounds I should purchase. I've read thru the thread for the various practice round recommendations.

1. I've got a bunch of 55gr and 62gr FMJ. Should I just shoot these and then revisit other options?
2. I really wish there was a way to get a caliber "starter pack" of various weights/rounds, from one seller, as to put together any variety seems to require quite a few sellers. As of the moment, I'm about to buy:
   • 68gr BTHP (Frontier) and 73 ELD-M (Hornady Match) from one seller; and
   • 69gr SMK (On Target) and 77gr SMK (On Target) from another seller.
3. Anyone try Defender or On Target brand ammo?

 

[The Guide]

I'd suggest the factory Hornady 73 ELDM since you can get them as low as $22 a box when you buy a case (with free shipping on case lots) which is great for practice ammo if your rifle likes them. Mine does and now that I've upgraded my stock (RAR 5.56 rotary mag from factory stock to KRG Bravo) I'm excited to see how well that they will shoot at distance.

Jay

 

[atmat]

I'd suggest the factory Hornady 73 ELDM since you can get hem as low as $22 a box when you buy a case (with free shipping on case lots) which is great for practice ammo if your rifle likes them. Mine does and now that I've upgraded my stock (RAR 5.56 rotary mag from factory stock to KRG Bravo) I'm excited to see how well that they will shoot at distance.

Jay

I really like the ELD-M, but $1.10 each gets costly if you’re using it as a trainer and shooting in the thousands annually.

 

[WestTN2288]

This whole thread has me thinking hard about a 10.5” suppressed AR.

Kinda in the same boat, except I just built a 10.5 ar for a toy, now I’m going back through it for a compact hunting option

 

[The Guide]

I really like the ELD-M, but $1.10 each gets costly if you’re using it as a trainer and shooting in the thousands annually.

I understand but for factory ammo it does quite well. You are looking at $1.40 each for factory 77 TMK. If you reload, the initial investment in 200 rounds of factory Hornady will yield you brass that should allow for another 4 loadings minimum with minimal brass prep which gives you your 1k a year to practice with. If you were using a typical hunting round for practice you would be looking at $2.00 to $3.00 for the same experience.

Jay

 

[WestTN2288]

What’s the purpose? Not that you have to have one, just curious.

Don’t know what his is, but if hiking is not a factor. You can build an ar to a very similar accuracy standard for the same amount of money (usually less) as a Tikka. Also, parts are cheaper and easier to find

 

[4090Sharps]

My RS Special build is in the home stretch (barrel cutting and threading next week), so I'm wasting lots of time with analysis paralysis. I don't reload. Although I have 100 rounds of 77 TMKs, I'm thinking about the practice rounds I should purchase. I've read thru the thread for the various practice round recommendations.

1. I've got a bunch of 55gr and 62gr FMJ. Should I just shoot these and then revisit other options?
2. I really wish there was a way to get a caliber "starter pack" of various weights/rounds, from one seller, as to put together any variety seems to require quite a few sellers. As of the moment, I'm about to buy:
   • 68gr BTHP (Frontier) and 73 ELD-M (Hornady Match) from one seller; and
   • 69gr SMK (On Target) and 77gr SMK (On Target) from another seller.
3. Anyone try Defender or On Target brand ammo?

Sounds like you need to make good friends with a reloader (bullet pack rat). This would solve your loading and starter pack issue.

 

[FZMT]

My RS Special build is in the home stretch (barrel cutting and threading next week), so I'm wasting lots of time with analysis paralysis. I don't reload. Although I have 100 rounds of 77 TMKs, I'm thinking about the practice rounds I should purchase. I've read thru the thread for the various practice round recommendations.

1. I've got a bunch of 55gr and 62gr FMJ. Should I just shoot these and then revisit other options?
2. I really wish there was a way to get a caliber "starter pack" of various weights/rounds, from one seller, as to put together any variety seems to require quite a few sellers. As of the moment, I'm about to buy:
   • 68gr BTHP (Frontier) and 73 ELD-M (Hornady Match) from one seller; and
   • 69gr SMK (On Target) and 77gr SMK (On Target) from another seller.
3. Anyone try Defender or On Target brand ammo?

No reason not to try the 55/62gr.

My rifle shot the 68gr Frontier fine, it liked the factory 73gr ELD-M.

PSA usually seems to have good inventory and has a house load for the 75gr BTHP, 77gr SMK and 77gr TMK and might stock the Frontier/ELD-M. I have not tried the PSA/AAC offerings.

I can’t speak to On Target but I imagine your rifle will shoot the heavier Hornady/Frontier stuff or 68/77gr SMKs just fine.

 

[Trapperkid]

The Sierra smk seems to be quite a bit cheaper and way more available than the tmk or even the eldm so you might be able to get the same kind of accuracy with them I’d use that as a practice round

 

[justinspicher]

Don’t know what his is, but if hiking is not a factor. You can build an ar to a very similar accuracy standard for the same amount of money (usually less) as a Tikka. Also, parts are cheaper and easier to find

I’m pretty familiar with the AR platform, I just get excited when someone wants to use one for hunting. I always hear negative comments about them and their application outside of MIL/LE use.

I’ve never shot a Tikka, so I have no comparison, but I know my AR builds are fairly accurate.

 

[rbutcher1234]

I’m pretty familiar with the AR platform, I just get excited when someone wants to use one for hunting. I always hear negative comments about them and their application outside of MIL/LE use.

I’ve never shot a Tikka, so I have no comparison, but I know my AR builds are fairly accurate.

There is nothing wrong with hunting using ar15 pattern rifles. I’ve killed more pigs and deer with them than I have with bolt guns by a factor of 4-5.

 

[Drenalin]

That’s pretty awesome. You could do a 13.7/14.5” with a folding stock and it would be pretty handy as well. Depending on your muzzle adaptor, if you P/W it, it would be a legal 16” gun and you wouldn’t have to worry about the SBR issues. Just a thought…….

Either way, that’s pretty rad and I dig it.

I wasn’t even aware of the SBR issue; thanks for bringing that up. Leaning away from a pinned and welded muzzle device. May just go with a 16” barrel and a folder.

Would like to keep the weight low, maybe 7-ish pounds with optic. When I’m not hunting in people’s backyards, I hike a lot.

I’m hunting with a Ruger American in 223 this year, with 73 ELD-Ms. If there’s no drama with recovery, I’ll pursue the AR option.

 

[Lawnboi]

My RS Special build is in the home stretch (barrel cutting and threading next week), so I'm wasting lots of time with analysis paralysis. I don't reload. Although I have 100 rounds of 77 TMKs, I'm thinking about the practice rounds I should purchase. I've read thru the thread for the various practice round recommendations.

1. I've got a bunch of 55gr and 62gr FMJ. Should I just shoot these and then revisit other options?
2. I really wish there was a way to get a caliber "starter pack" of various weights/rounds, from one seller, as to put together any variety seems to require quite a few sellers. As of the moment, I'm about to buy:
   • 68gr BTHP (Frontier) and 73 ELD-M (Hornady Match) from one seller; and
   • 69gr SMK (On Target) and 77gr SMK (On Target) from another seller.
3. Anyone try Defender or On Target brand ammo?

HRNDY 223REM 73GR ELD-M 20/200 UPC: 090255802696

Hornady 223 Rem 73 gr ELD Match Ammunition Per 20<br /><br />Features:<br /><br />- Carefully selected components: We carefully select every component to ensure uniformity, then load to exacting specifications to provide pinpoint accuracy. Each cartridge is loaded with either Hornady ELD Match...

globalordnance.com

73 elms have similar bc to the tmk. And they seem to shoot well from the tikka chamber.

The lighter stuff would be fine for close up, you can also get a case of 69smk or 55bk for pretty cheap from the site above, made by ADI

 

[rbutcher1234]

This rifle has accounted for probably 30 deer between regular license tags and management license tags, and a boatload of pigs.

62 fusion, with kills out to 316 meters.

Have had zero recovery issues. Every animal hit has been recovered. Longest tracking was due to a frontal heart shot at ~180, and the animal ran probably 50m through several thick motts. Even with that, easy to track and recover. I would have zero hesitation taking any animal in North America with a 5.56 bullet placed correctly.

If it is worth anything, my experience hunting with ar15 pattern guns is what led me to try the 223 tikka. So I guess I’m coming at this from the opposite direction.