.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[BjornF16]

thanks for the links. Yes, but both of those posts are specific to .22 cal bullets and dont directly answer my question. Closest was the comment that lead free “sucks” and a luke-warm mention that a 6.5mm lrx has been ok. my question was not what leadfree was best for .22 cf cartridges, it was what mono projectile/caliber was the minimum sweetest-spot for elk. If that is too far afield for this thread I’ll post elsewhere.

You're posting in a .223 specific thread...and it appears that no one is using lead free in .223 on elk (at least those who have posted here). So you can draw your own conclusions there.

In the 6.5CM/260 thread, there is this:

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Really good stuff, guys. I wish we could get Pat Sinclair's Grizzly bear in here! :LOL: Keep posting them up!

www.rokslide.com

Perhaps you could start a new thread asking for what minimum cartridge folks have used lead free options on elk...

 

[cod0396]

So, I hesitate to take this off topic but it seems relevant. I’ve always erred on the side of using just barely enough gun—20ga versus 12, etc, because it works. So this thread resonates. Question is, if a 223 using fragmenting lead bullets is something of a “sweet spot” with regard to plenty of deadness with maximum shootability, what is the equivalent gun for elk at sub400yds for those of us choosing mono bullets specifically to minimize meat damage and possible lead fragments in meat? Is it also a 223? If not, what has been closest? I shoot quite a bit but I dont have, and probably will never have, the opportunity to shoot enough elk or deer to be an authority on this, so if any of you guys that seem to shoot critters 3 days a week plus saturday have insight I’d be interested in your take.

I'm not sure how far you'd have to go, but consider the fact that .308 caliber TSX/TTSX bullets don't make wound channels as large as the 77gr TMK out of a .223/5.56. Despite packing over twice as much energy as a 77gr TMK, the .308 monolithics (TSX, GMX, etc.) don't even match it in performance. Unfortunately, the meat damage produced by TMKs and similar bullets is one of the reasons why they are so devastatingly effective at ensuring ethical and fast kills. You'll have to go up quite a bit in caliber for similar outcomes with non fragmenting lead free bullets. Something more powerful than a .308, for sure. You'll also want to go with light for caliber bullets, since velocity is very much your friend with monos.

 

[BLJ]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

 

[cod0396]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

I'm not saying it's not enough, but if his goal is to match the raw terminal performance of the 77gr TMK (or similarly constructed bullets), then it doesn't quite get there.

 

[False_Cast]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

Comically dense interpretation of anything in this entire thread. 10/10

 

[BLJ]

Yeah. I thought the insinuation was funny, too

 

[Lawnboi]

So a 150 Barnes TTSX fired from a .308 Winchester would not be enough for elk under 400? Interesting.

I wouldn’t even shoot another deer with those at 100.

 

[wind gypsy]

I wouldn’t even shoot another deer with those at 100.

Serious?

 

[Lawnboi]

Serious?

I only shot two with them but yes. I’d take my 223 with tmk before taking that round again. Not impressed with the damage.

 

[BLJ]

Alright everyone. I’m going to walk back my jab @cod0396. For his response to @Macintosh. It’s just frustrating for me to see someone point out the faults in someone else’s questions without providing answers. But, by me taking a shot @cod0396, ( in haste) I added fuel to the fire instead of helping provide an answer myself. A ton of good info in this thread and I don’t want to be responsible for a giant sidetrack or worse. My apologies.

 

[BLJ]

Having said that, I’m hoping to get some 77 TMK’s over Varget this weekend. Shooting them from a short barrel RAR. I’ll try to post load data, groups and velocities.

 

[cod0396]

Alright everyone. I’m going to walk back my jab @cod0396. For his response to @Macintosh. It’s just frustrating for me to see someone point out the faults in someone else’s questions without providing answers. But, by me taking a shot @cod0396, ( in haste) I added fuel to the fire instead of helping provide an answer myself. A ton of good info in this thread and I don’t want to be responsible for a giant sidetrack or worse. My apologies.

Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but where did I point out the faults in someone else's questions without providing answers? All I did was tell the guy that he'd have to upsize quite a bit in caliber to match the 77gr TMK's performance with non fragmenting lead free monos. Are you confusing me with someone else?

 

[BLJ]

I was referring to you. I interpreted it as a very open ended answer. Struck me as vague. What I got from your answer was taken out of context by me instead of it being taken as a complete answer. And I then replied with a smart ass dig at you. I was out of line.

 

[Formidilosus]

Question is, if a 223 using fragmenting lead bullets is something of a “sweet spot” with regard to plenty of deadness with maximum shootability, what is the equivalent gun for elk at sub400yds for those of us choosing mono bullets specifically to minimize meat damage and possible lead fragments in meat? Is it also a 223? If not, what has been closest?

The answer is there isn’t an equivalent lead free Bullet to the TMK. So first, shoot them in the ribs and there isn’t much lost meat. Second, factually “lead in meat” is not what has been pushed, and what has been pushed is very slanted.

But to answer your question, the only “available” projectiles that feature similar, if not as good, of wounding as the heavy frangible bullets are the A1 military projectiles. What I would do if required to shoot lead free is find M855A1 projectiles for .224, amd M80A1 projectiles for .308 cal on the auction sites and load those. To directly answer a 308 win with M80A1 bullets is as close as you can get in lead free.

 

[IDHoundsman]

And now to find a Tikka 223 in the Stainless variant and some 77 TMK’s to load…

 

[WheatWhacker]

Does anyone here know if a Tikka T3x lite stainless has enough meat at 20" to be threaded 5/8x24 for a suppressor? Did a few searches and I'm getting conflicting information.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[mt100gr.]

Does anyone here know if a Tikka T3x lite stainless has enough meat at 20" to be threaded 5/8x24 for a suppressor? Did a few searches and I'm getting conflicting information.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I just dropped off a T3x Lite-Compact with the factory 20" barrel and it didn't have enough to go 5/8-24.

 

[WheatWhacker]

I just dropped off a T3x Lite-Compact with the factory 20" barrel and it didn't have enough to go 5/8-24.

Dang, thanks. I really want to get a Tikka but options seem to be very very slim for lefty and threaded.

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[TX_Diver]

Dang, thanks. I really want to get a Tikka but options seem to be very very slim for lefty and threaded.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I'm going 9/16-24 and using the area 419 adapter. For a superlite I think you have to go 1/2-28.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Both of our Tikka .223s are cut to 20” and have TBACS on them. Not an issue.