.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[260madman]

Idk if this link will work.

But I find with 223 I prefer quantity over quality.

https://imgur.com/13TFWq5

Tactical flip flops are bitchin’

 

[woods89]

I shot some of the 77 gr TMK out of a 1-9 CZ this afternoon. Load was Starline brass, CCI 450, and a moderate load of CFE 223. Bullet holes were nice and round at 100 yds.

Accuracy was not bad at all, .87 for 5 shots off a backpack. I shot 5 more over my chrono and was not happy with the ES numbers though. I read that some like to use a milder primer with this powder so I may try that. I also have Varget if nothing else but case capacity becomes the issue.

So for you guys with 1-9 twists, it's worth a try!

Edited to add- Further testing just did not produce the precision I wanted. Not sure if it was twist rate related or not. YMMV.

 

[TxxAgg]

For anyone possibly looking for tmk ammo, I found this last week. Have never ordered from them but have read on discord they are g2g. I wanted to give it a shot but with over 1k eldm’s I’m going to bite the bullet and get a mtn tac mag and shoot through some of the eldm’s in hopes I can find some tmk projectiles soon. I reached out about velocity and they reported back that they were getting 2600 FPS out of a 16” barrel.

https://americanreloading.com/en/223-rem-556/2982-am-223-rem-77gr-tmk-free-shipping-500-rds.html

Got around to shooting these today. Averaged 2605 fps out of a 16.5" barrel. I need to chrono a bunch more this wknd to see what actual spread looks like.

 

[Juan_ID]

Got around to shooting these today. Averaged 2605 fps out of a 16.5" barrel. I need to chrono a bunch more this wknd to see what actual spread looks like.

Good deal, did you shoot any groups? Does the ammo just come loosely packed or does it come in boxes?

 

[TxxAgg]

Loosely packed in 250 piece boxes

I didnt shoot groups on paper. I started at steel at 300 yds and hit every time. Only shot about 15

 

[DJL2]

Well, gents, I grabbed 500 rounds of the American Reloading 77 TMK to test. The AR 77 TMK ammo came to me in Hornady brass, loose packed 250 rounds to a box. I sent 30 rounds in front of my Lab Radar, which picked up 28. I also fired 10 rounds of generic "Green Tip" with a "P S D" head stamp (don't remember the source). It's 30 deg C and 71% humidity here at lovely Fort Benning, about 450 feet ASL. The rifle is a 16" DD M4V1 purchased in late 2009 with a standard milspec 1:7 barrel and a 5.56 NATO chamber. Below today's data, I'll be presenting historical data taken with an MSv3 in central North Carolina under roughly similar conditions.

20210711:
"Green Tip" - Vavg 2906 fps, SD 20.4 fps, ES 69 fps
AR 77 TMK - Vavg 2565 fps, SD 21.4 fps, ES 78 fps

Historical Data:
PMC M193 (55 grain FMJ) - Vavg 2989, SD 23 fps, ES 82 fps
ZQI M855/SS109 - Vavg 2920 fps, SD 34 fps, ES 98 fps
Lapua 69 grain Scenar - Vavg 2837 fps, SD 18 fps, ES 67 fps
CorBon 77 SMK - Vavg 2529, SD 30 fps, ES 94 fps

Calculations:
Using JBM Ballistics, the AR 77 TMK crosses 1800 fps at ~400 yards with roughly 31 inches of drop on average from a 50 meter zero. The slowest shot recorded was 2522 fps and the fastest was 2600 fps. These would be 33 inches low and 30 inches low respectively.

In terms of trajectory and retained velocity, the 77 TMK compares favorably with the 110 VMax @2600 fps from my 6.8 SPC 16" AR-15. The VMax crosses 1800 fps at roughly 375 yards and drop is funtionally identical at 400 yards. The 120 SST @2440 fps MV crosses 1800 fps at roughly 335 yards.

Wind Drift for the 77 TMK in a 10 mph 3/9 o'clock wind is 15.6". That compares to 17.3" for the 69 grain Scenar or, in the 6.8 SPC, 17.5" for the 120 SST, 17.8" for 110 VMax.

Conclusions:
The 30 rounds tested here for velocity and accuracy functioned without issues and made a neat little brass pile at about the 2 o'clock position. My supposition is that this ammunition is loaded on the light side. The 69 grain Lapua runs ~2840 fps. An 8 grain difference in projectile weight doesn't justify a 275 fps difference in MV. The Black hills spec for Mk262 Mod 1-C is 2750 fps. In terms of quality, I consider it "run of the mill." That is to say that it is similar to ammunition tested from several major manufacturers. It is NOT match grade, regardless of using a "match" bullet. .223/5.56 ammunition in general evidences much higher SD/ES in my testing than 6.8 SPC ammunition.

All shooting was conducted from the prone, off a sand bag (no rear rest) with an Aimpoint PRO. The best accuracy from this rifle has been obtained with the Lapua 69 grain Scenar @ ~1.5 MOA. The M885/SS109 tends to be ~ 2MOA depending on who loads it. The AR 77 TMK was a roughly 3 MOA load today. In my case, the rifle and my performance as a shooter will become an issue well before the performance of the bullet, even from a modest MV of 2565 fps.

 

[Lawnboi]

Where the hell are the 77tmk Sierra!

I only pulled doe tags. I really wanted to play with the hammer 124 in my creedmoor but what the heck I’ll just shoot them with the 223 again, this time suppressed!

 

[DJL2]

Mi amigo... haven't seen any, at all, other than the American Reloading mentioned here. I bought them because some, even at a somewhat erratic 2565 fps, are better than none. I am curious what they would do from a bolt gun.

 

[Sadler]

I haven’t been able to find any TMKs but there’s a fixed 6x42 swfa on eBay right now if anybody is looking

 

[Juan_ID]

Mi amigo... haven't seen any, at all, other than the American Reloading mentioned here. I bought them because some, even at a somewhat erratic 2565 fps, are better than none. I am curious what they would do from a bolt gun.

Sounds like everyone here missed out on the drop midsouth had on the 77tmk last month, myself included.

 

[Blaw]

Only about half an inch due to it being a fluted barrel. I wanted to go 20”. I’m over long barrels.

would you be concerned about loss of velocity with the ranges your hunting at? I think 300 to 600ish?

 

[Formidilosus]

would you be concerned about loss of velocity with the ranges your hunting at? I think 300 to 600ish?

Nope. It’s still within expansion velocity past 500 with a 20”.

 

[wind gypsy]

For anyone possibly looking for tmk ammo, I found this last week. Have never ordered from them but have read on discord they are g2g. I wanted to give it a shot but with over 1k eldm’s I’m going to bite the bullet and get a mtn tac mag and shoot through some of the eldm’s in hopes I can find some tmk projectiles soon. I reached out about velocity and they reported back that they were getting 2600 FPS out of a 16” barrel.

https://americanreloading.com/en/223-rem-556/2982-am-223-rem-77gr-tmk-free-shipping-500-rds.html

Was finally gonna pull the trigger on thess and they gone.. Have plenty TMK components to keep me good but not much loading time. Would have been nice to use in an AR so I dont have to worry about beating up lapua brass.

 

[300 win mag]

Eloquent and well supported statements like these are what really makes Rokslide great.

/s

your opinion is just that.worth the same as any other.trying to demean me is ok.yet worthless.i will elaborate just slightly.i have been hunting for 46 years.in that time have assembled a collection of 15 custom built rifles in many different calibers.have hunted all over n/a which includes british columbia and the yukon.alaska and africa.you and your like minded lovers of the 223 has great merit.i belive anytime we go afield to hunt game we must take into account all possible circumstances that affect taking a game animal.shooting deer with a 223 and proper bullet load combination is fine,under the right conditions.my point is after many years and hunts you learn much.now there are many people like myself who would not hunt moose,bear or elk with a 223,especially in questionable conditions and at certain distance.i just believe the margin for error increases.its a great cartridge,just not even close for elk,moose and above average bear..no offence,just a opinion based on seeing some horrible wounding and maiming of game animals.i own the 223,22-250 and 13 others up to 416 rem mag.happy ethical hunting to all

 

[DJL2]

Dear, sweet Lord above... use the space bar and capitalize things occasionally.

If you haven't sorted through the other 40+ pages and this happens to be your first week on the internet, let alone a gun related sub forum thereof, allow me to elucidate:

1. People in this thread have made the point that they don't like .223 and wouldn't hunt with it, as well as why. In fact, they have done so at great length in a great many places, all over this forum and the internet in general. I won't say that no one cares, but I will say that most of the folks conversing on the topic identified in the thread title have already heard as much as they are inclined to on the topic.

2. You claim that you are an experienced hunter (and with clear preferences). That does not make you unique on this forum or the internet at large. That goes double when one's claims of experience are not vouched for or otherwise provable.

3. It sounds like you have quite the collection. There are a number of other threads on this forum where a well thought out, well organized, occasionally punctuated (and capitalized) conversation on those pieces and your experiences with them would be very well received.

 

[Lawnboi]

your opinion is just that.worth the same as any other.trying to demean me is ok.yet worthless.i will elaborate just slightly.i have been hunting for 46 years.in that time have assembled a collection of 15 custom built rifles in many different calibers.have hunted all over n/a which includes british columbia and the yukon.alaska and africa.you and your like minded lovers of the 223 has great merit.i belive anytime we go afield to hunt game we must take into account all possible circumstances that affect taking a game animal.shooting deer with a 223 and proper bullet load combination is fine,under the right conditions.my point is after many years and hunts you learn much.now there are many people like myself who would not hunt moose,bear or elk with a 223,especially in questionable conditions and at certain distance.i just believe the margin for error increases.its a great cartridge,just not even close for elk,moose and above average bear..no offence,just a opinion based on seeing some horrible wounding and maiming of game animals.i own the 223,22-250 and 13 others up to 416 rem mag.happy ethical hunting to all

I’ll respectfully ask how many big game animals you have harvested with a 223 tipped with one of the few 75+ grain bullets highlighted in this thread?

 

[Castle Rock]

Go easy on him, he has commissioned 15 custom rifles, he must be an expert

 

[LimeSpoon]

It appears we have some new information on the velocity threshold of the 77 gr TMK.

This video seems to show that 77 gr TMK is still expanding well at velocities of 1650 FPS, which would seem like justification to revise my previous estimates of 1650-1700 FPS down to 1550-1600 FPS. Firing the Black Hills loading of a 20" barrel, this would suggest an expansion range of ~650 yards.

Granted it's not doing a lot of damage at that point but at least it isn't simply penciling through.

 

[Lawnboi]

In any case, the 77gr TMK-

Is generally stable through transonic when fired from suitable twist rates. Consistent and wide upset should be expected to +-/ 1,900fps impact velocity. Minimum (read minimal) upset down to 1,600’ish FPS.
Wound channels in big game (deer and bigger) are... extreme to around 2,300fps impact. From 2,200 or so down to approx 2,000fps impact wounds will be similar to conventional bullet from 270/30-06/etc class rounds. Below 2,000fps wounds will be similar to solid copper monolithic bullets such as Barnes TSX.


In laymen’s terms, from 20-24” barreled 223’s with MV’s of 2750+ FPS, the 77gr TMK is an emphatic killer inside of 300 or so yards. Most would consider it too much on even big deer. From 300+/- yards to 450 yards or so, it is a solid performer terminally generally giving exits on normal sized deer, and is 50/50 on being caught under the skin on the offside on big deer or major bones being hit. Past 450 to around 550-600 yards, it will kill, but effects on animals is similar to a good broadhead, I.E.- 10-20 seconds before succumbing.

@LimeSpoon
I quoted the earlier velocities so people don’t have to dig. Me personally, I don’t want minimal upset. I want things dropping so I’ll keep them moving 2000fps. That gets me to 400yards on my rifle.

 

[300 win mag]

well,obviously some feelings still hurt.clarified why i personnally wont use them for certain game.as for expert,that is a big no.but more than enough experience with firearms and hunting.having collected and using custom hunting rifles is and was a passion.extreme accuracy means a lot to me.never said that production rifles arent good enough in anyway for any hunting anyone does.as far as being ? about honesty.well that says it all.i will provide evidence shortly.i also will avoid certain conversations that to me are poppycock..to you very young members,non sensical boloney.good day,good hunting.