.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[5811]

Damn. It was my new years resolution not to get trolled.

I guess I'll try again in 2026!

 

[Harvey_NW]

 

[Grizzle]

OMG are you serious. The “objective side” is not a side. That is the nature of objective. I guess between the non objective side and the objective side i do.

I'll admit I missed the word objective in your previous post and responded hastily out of annoyance.
I stand by the fact that your posts on this thread are nothing but argumentative with no point that furthers the conversation or adds any data to it. I should be smarter than to engage and for the rest of the people suffering through this I apologize

 

[CorbLand]

The most surefire way for no information, data, or anything to be added to the knowledge base is making it so damn annoying to even try to learn it, that people just give up and that is what is being achieved here.

Honestly, at this point, its not even worth opening any thread that has anything to do with calibers.

 

[KHntr]

Especially that form or anyone who now shots smaller calibers is stating they are better than big calibers regarding actual killing.

That copied from your post so i showed you that some are saying that the smaller cartridges kill better. Im not sure where i quoted Form incorrectly.

You keep referring to my post, but you are cherry picking half of the paragraph to try and make your point.

Go back, read my post again but maybe slower this time and out loud to see if you pick up what I’m saying. Read the whole post.

 

[deerhunter628]

You keep referring to my post, but you are cherry picking half of the paragraph to try and make your point.

Go back, read my post again but maybe slower this time and out loud to see if you pick up what I’m saying. Read the whole post.

Did you not say that you think small calibers kill better? I cherry picked your post because it was in response to another member stating that nobody was claiming that but you were.

 

[KHntr]

I said that a small cartridge with soft long for caliber bullets kills faster than a bigger one with hard bullets. And I’m not wrong.

 

[fwafwow]

So did they kill the same animal with a small caliber and a large caliber? Same animal, same conditions, and same circumstances?

An analogy - do you take any medications or otherwise entrust your life even though the testing of those medicines can’t meet this approach?

 

[deerhunter628]

I said that a small cartridge with soft long for caliber bullets kills faster than a bigger one with hard bullets. And I’m not wrong.

My own personal observations have been that stuff killed with soft bullets dies faster than stuff shot with hard bullets. And stuff shot with small calibers (223, 223AI, 243, 243AI) has killed stuff just as dead, FASTER, than stuff shot with larger calibers and hard bullets.

The above is the paragraph. The AND in the sentence to me indicated a separate point which clearly reads small calibers kill faster.

 

[deerhunter628]

An analogy - do you take any medications or otherwise rely upon, for your personal health (life even) health care even though those medicines or procedures can’t meet this approach?

I really dont understand a word you wrote but you do understand that personal attacks are a sign of the weak.

 

[fwafwow]

I really dont understand a word you wrote but you do understand that personal attacks are a sign of the weak.

I edited it for clarity. But I have no idea how you can read a personal attack into my less than clear first version.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I edited it for clarity. But I have no idea how you can read a personal attack into my less than clear first version.

For the same reason he can't comprehend the full statement that KHntr wrote, or what I wrote. He is reading everything through his victim lenses.

 

[omicron1792]

So did they kill the same animal with a small caliber and a large caliber? Same animal, same conditions, and same circumstances? Did they time how long it took the animal to die, not how far it ran, but how long it took to die? Are they 100% sure that the shot placement from both cartridges was exactly the same? Of course they did not do all of that which would make the experiment flawed in several different ways. Each animal reacts different, each set of conditions is different and each shot placement is at least slightly different. I think the only person on the small caliber side who has not said it is a fact is Form.

Studies on humans for drugs don’t use same human. They use similar humans in similar circumstances. What your asking for is impossible and not done in most, if any, circumstances.

 

[deerhunter628]

I edited it for clarity. But I have no idea how you can read a personal attack into my less than clear first version.

Like i said nobody understood what you were saying but when you ask somebody if they are taking medication that often times is considered a personal attack.

 

[HandgunHTR]

My whole point today is that: the small caliber guys are saying that any info they dont like is an opinion and the info they do like is a fact. In reality all the info i have read is opinion. You can argue it however you want but there has not been any facts presented. Maybe its impossible to prove either way because there are too many variables.

Read the above bold and Italics. What you are saying is that relaying an experience, with photos and/or videos to show the evidence of said experience are opinions? If so, you really should look up the definition of opinion.

An analogy for you. You rob a liquor store. You are on video and a customer takes a picture of you as you run out of the store. When those are presented during your trial, your defense is going to be "But videos and pictures are just opinions, not facts!"?

 

[omicron1792]

Sounds like your just here to argue for the sake of arguing, or maybe you just like reading your own non sense over and over. Either way it's not a useful contribution to this thread in anyway.

The loudest of the big caliber proponents seem to not read well and keep getting hung up on a misguided idea smaller calibers or cartridges kill more powerfully or quicker than larger caliber or cartridge.
This is probably due to the comparison of small caliber with good bullets vs large caliber with mono's and that a small caliber with heavy for caliber fragmenting bullets terminal performance will outperform a larger caliber or cartridge that has been neuterd by a poor performing bullet.
It has been said however, over and over, that using the same bullets ( tmk or eldm for example) will make a larger caliber or magnum cartridge cause a larger wound, often far more damage than a person would want or accept.

The point that small caliber proponents keep making seems to not be absorbed by the few that constantly feel the need to argue this point, which is..

That small calibers/ cartridges provide sufficient or better wounding to incapcitate big game while reducing recoil and increasing field shootability, spotting of impact and possibility of follow up shots which makes the person using it have a higher hit rate and that, coupled with sufficient wounding make you a more effective killer than you would be using a magnum cartridge and or larger caliber. Of course the argument is "I shoot my magnum just as good" which you likely don't if tested, and in most cases is coupled by a "stem to stearn" mono or bonded bullet that severely limits any perceived benefit from said magnum while still providing all the downside of recoil.

Also if you want to shoot a magnum none of us are saying not to, just that it's not necessary and that you'll likely be giving yourself a handicap rather than advantage in real world hunting conditions.

You should post more. Well said.

 

[deerhunter628]

An analogy - do you take any medications or otherwise entrust your life even though the testing of those medicines can’t meet this approach?

The medications i take are tested scientifically. I would not take medications that were only “proven” by people on a forum.

 

[fwafwow]

Like i said nobody understood what you were saying but when you ask somebody if they are taking medication that often times is considered a personal attack.

I guess for those who are thin skinned. Tylenol? Or by bots.

The medications i take are tested scientifically. I would not take medications that were only “proven” by people on a forum.

I think you are not getting the analogy.

 

[deerhunter628]

Read the above bold and Italics. What you are saying is that relaying an experience, with photos and/or videos to show the evidence of said experience are opinions? If so, you really should look up the definition of opinion.

An analogy for you. You rob a liquor store. You are on video and a customer takes a picture of you as you run out of the store. When those are presented during your trial, your defense is going to be "But videos and pictures are just opinions, not facts!"?

Yes, but when sombody says the same stuff about a big caliber they are told that is their opinion and the small caliber group says theirs is fact. That is my point. Im not on the big caliber side or small caliber side.

 

[deerhunter628]

I guess for those who are thin skinned. Tylenol? Or by bots.

I think you are not getting the analogy.

I guess not. Move on