.223, 6mm, and 6.5 failures on big game

[Taudisio]

If your G1 BC starts with anything other than 1, then your BC is garbage.

In all seriousness, I think the fairest comparison is the ultimate “fudd” round which I would contest is a 180gr Accubond or partition (from an ‘06 or 300wm) and compare it to the ultimate light recoil camp, 88gr eldm, 77tmk, 108/109 eldm. I haven’t crunched the numbers myself, but I would assume 90+% of elk hunters use a 7rm, ‘06, 300wm.

 

[z987k]

Why would anyone shoot a low bc bullet long range. Im specifically talking high bc available in each caliber. Highest bc in 30 cal 245 berger 250 a tip. No 6mm can touch that.

Because you can actually spot your shots with the 6mm. And have a crap ton less recoil which we know improves every shooter's accuracy. And the difference between a .6G1 and a .878G1 at say 800 yards is only .5MOA in 10mph of wind.

 

[bmart2622]

If you wanna make the comparison then compare same bullet. Partions are bowling balls

See, now thats specific and clear, your original question wasnt. And no, a 6mm cant match a heavy for cal 30 cal bullet in terms of bc

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I would post my picture to show the lack of damage that my 6.5cm did on a moose this year. But it got away. Can’t share a pic of the bullet failing when the animal got away.

 

[barehandlineman]

Because you can actually spot your shots with the 6mm. And have a crap ton less recoil which we know improves every shooter's accuracy. And the difference between a .6G1 and a .878G1 at say 800 yards is only .5MOA in 10mph of wind.

I can spot my hits with ant 30 cal gun… shoot more practice more. Calculator says that real world dont. Thats why i challenged anyone to shoot both side by side same day same conditions.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

Here’s a giant hint for you… People lie to prove a point all the time, especially on the internet. Blindly believing anyone’s “experience” with no proof is a crock. #metoo

So true.

 

[barehandlineman]

anyway good to have opinions but i got guns to build. You guys have good thanksgiving im out.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I would post my picture to show the lack of damage that my 6.5cm did on a moose this year. But it got away. Can’t share a pic of the bullet failing when the animal got away.

J/k

6.5cm did the job.
I didn’t take internal damage photos. I was too busy cutting meat.

 

[huntnful]

Because you can actually spot your shots with the 6mm. And have a crap ton less recoil which we know improves every shooter's accuracy. And the difference between a .6G1 and a .878G1 at say 800 yards is only .5MOA in 10mph of wind.

I just put that in, and you are 100% incorrect. Are you just pulling this crap out of thin air? Its a 15” difference at 800 yards at my shooting location

 

[Wyo_hntr]

I can spot my hits with ant 30 cal gun… shoot more practice more. Calculator says that real world dont. Thats why i challenged anyone to shoot both side by side same day same conditions.

@Formidilosus this sounds like a perfect opportunity to bring the small caliber fallacy down, once and for all.

Then we'll be rid of these mouse gun stunt shooters.

 

[huntnful]

@Formidilosus this sounds like a perfect opportunity to bring the small caliber fallacy down, once and for all.

Then we'll be rid of these mouse gun stunt shooters.

Yeah I’m pretty sure he has a magnum 30 cal rifle specifically for shooting long range across canyons at elk.

Like I don’t have a 6mm sitting right here that I would shoot an elk tomorrow with at 600 yards.

It doesn’t mean I have to be oblivious to the difference between a heavy for caliber .224 or 6mm and a heavy for caliber .308 and .338.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

Yeah I’m pretty sure he has a magnum 30 cal rifle specifically for shooting long range across canyons at elk.

Like I don’t have a 6mm sitting right here that I would shoot an elk tomorrow with at 600 yards.

It doesn’t mean I have to be oblivious to the difference between a heavy for caliber .224 or 6mm and a heavy for caliber .308 and .338.

I appreciate your opinion sir, but professionals have spoken. 30cal is the absolute bare minimum. Ft lbs of energy, wind in sails, margin for error, etcetera...

I myself will be switching to 338 lapua or 50 bmg. The elk deserve it.

 

[z987k]

See, now thats specific and clear, your original question wasnt. And no, a 6mm cant match a heavy for cal 30 cal bullet in terms of bc

In theory it could. To equal the SD of that 30 cal, the 243 would have to be 155gr. In lead and the form factor of an a-tip that'd be about 1.83" long and require about a 1-5.75 twist to stabilize. It's just that no one makes either of those things. The barrel can be made. The bullet is a lot harder to do.

 

[z987k]

I just put that in, and you are 100% incorrect. Are you just pulling this crap out of thin air? Its a 15” difference at 800 yards at my shooting location

No, I literally put that into a calculator to come up with it. 2.9 vs 3.4 MOA of drift at 800y. I went with 6PRC a 100gr at 3400fps .6G1 vs a 300NM shooting a 250gr a-tip at 2790fps(what I could find for load data for that.)

Interestingly, in 10lb guns, the 6PRC has 70% less recoil. That's a LOT less recoil.

With only 4in more wind drift at 800 yards, I'm going to take the 6prc every single time over a 300nm. With only 12ft lbs of recoil, I can spot my shots. As opposed to the 40ft-lbs the 300nm makes, there's not a chance even with a brake that takes 50% off it.

 

[barehandlineman]

What 300 norma improved is shooting a 250 at 2790

 

[barehandlineman]

Maybe 22” suppressed

 

[z987k]

Maybe 22” suppressed

What do you shoot it at from your rifle?

 

[barehandlineman]

2950 26” barrel

 

[huntnful]

No, I literally put that into a calculator to come up with it. 2.9 vs 3.4 MOA of drift at 800y. I went with 6PRC a 100gr at 3400fps .6G1 vs a 300NM shooting a 250gr a-tip at 2790fps(what I could find for load data for that.)

Interestingly, in 10lb guns, the 6PRC has 70% less recoil. That's a LOT less recoil.

Okay gotcha. I put 3000 FPS for both.

Really world data (because I have both of those cartridges). There is no 100gr. 6mm bullet with a .6 G1 by the way.

Put in a 105 hybrid at 3320fps and a 250 A-tip at 2930FPS

 

[The Guide]

You must have a really slow barrel or something with the 6.5cm. My 18" 6.5cm shoots the factory loaded eld-x at 2525fps. You should be really close to 2700fps with the 24" barrel. That or like what happened with the 7prc, hornady is running a very sub-optimal powder in the lot you have.

Box velocity on the 147 Match is 2695 fps. The fastest lot I've ever shot in that rifle was ~2650 fps. I don't shoot the 143 PH ammo in any of our 6.5CM rifles but the box velocity on them is 2700 fps. If you have an 18" barrel getting box velocity you must have an extremely fast barrel. Both bullets can be loaded much faster than factory box speeds by handloading but so can the PRC. If you compare everything equal, the PRC will always be 150 to 200 fps faster (or more) than the Creedmoor. You can not beat displacement. Not in motors or cartridges.

Jay