223, 223AI, or 22 ARC? Which one?

[Schmo]

I will probably be ordering a barrel for my Tikka soon. Currently just running a standard 8 twist factory 223 barrel that I throated long with a uni-throater.

When I order, I will have my choice of 223, 223AI, or 22 ARC. I’m definitely going 7 twist, as I want to be able to shoot the 77 TMK, 75 ELD-M, and 80 ELD-M. I know the TMK only requires 8 twist, but 7 is recommended for the 75 & 80 ELD. Curious which cartridge to go with? My thought is either a standard 223 with some added freebore, or the 223AI with some added freebore. 22 ARC would obviously outdo them both, but brass is quite a bit more (I run Starline 223 brass), and I’d have to have the bolt face opened up.

I’m thinking the 223AI may be the sweet spot. I love the look of the AI cases, and it’d give me a 100 fps gain over standard 223. Yes, I’d have to fire form, but even fire form loads are typically more than accurate enough to hunt with.

What say you?

 

[hereinaz]

22 ARC wins for better design to shoot the heavies faster. You seem budget minded, but other than initial expense, brass isn’t that much more over time.

The minimal extra cost doesn’t seem to be worth the hassle, if you are willing to pay to open the bolt face. Then you don’t have to worry about the issues/tweaks to the .223 that the 22 ARC solves. And you get a little more speed.

If you could shoot the 77tmk now, would you have a reason to change? If not, then stick with the .223. Least expensive and trouble.

.223 AI is nice, if you want more but don’t want to open your bolt face. You can shoot factory .223 ammo out of a .223 AI chamber so if you reload there is no downside between the two. You just have to buy the AI dies.

The differences are marginal given your parameters, which is why it’s a “hard” decision. Even the cost to open the bolt face isn’t a huge amount.

But, if budget is a concern, stick with .223 and buy more components and shoot more. It’s give and take on the priorities.

List what matters most to you and why in order, then follow it.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I am an AI looney, so that would be my vote. Much more available brass, ability to still shoot factory ammo (albeit at a lower velocity than if shot out of a standard chamber), not having to trim brass nearly as much (a HUGE plus in my book), and not having to mess around with your bolt.
The 22 ARC is a great cartridge, but that one (and the 338) are ones that I am just not sure will stand the test of time. The 6ARC is going to be the flagship of that line (even over the Grendel). The 223 is going to be around as long as you and I, at least.

 

[B23]

What about a 22 Nosler? Has the same case capacity as the 22 ARC but still uses the small 223 bolt face.

 

[eric1115]

Not having owned either .223AI or 22 ARC, but owning a .223 and a .243AI and a 6mm ARC, here are my thoughts (as I've noodled on this as well).

Do you load for an AR or other stock .223?

A big part of the appeal of .223 is that I can bulk load a good practice round and shoot that out of both AR and bolt guns, with range pick up (there's a few guys at my range that shoot a lot of LC and don't pick it up very well, 90% of the obviously annealed brass on the ground is LC. I can spend 10 min and have 200+ pieces of brass pretty much any time I want. This is super nice. One die setting, one powder charge, one bullet to keep in stock for practice stuff (77OTM) and one for hunting (77TMK). No keeping brass separated, just shoot it all and load it all for everything.

If you go AI (or even long freebore) .223, you've already lost a lot of what's appealing to me about straight .223 for my use. Now I've got different dies/settings, I have to keep more bullets on hand, have to keep brass separate, probably different powders, etc.

At that point, the ARC starts to really have appeal. In some ways it's more convenient. I can dump all my .223 brass in the tumbler with my ARC brass, and sort them out easier visually than I can straight .223 vs AI shoulder.

Fireformed AI brass is not huge work, but I'd rather lose a piece of ARC brass than a fireformed AI case. Maybe that's irrational. Either one should last long enough to be almost zero in your per-round cost by the end of its life.

The difference in die cost might even pay for the bolt face work. Not sure whether you were going Lee or Redding, but if the latter you can save a bunch by just getting the Hornady ARC dies which have worked great for me (one of my regrets with my .243AI was how stupid I got with Redding Comp dies/bushings... spent way more on that than I should have).

 

[Schmo]

@hereinaz, thanks for the detailed reply! I’m tracking with you. My current barrel shoots the 77TMK really well (capable of under 1” 10 shot groups) with my handload, but so far, that’s the only bullet it likes. Yes, I will be handloading for any cartridge I pick.

My thought for changing barrels. I know the barrel is obviously not cheap, but I’d love to shoot the 80 ELD, and my current barrel does not like the 75 or 80 ELD. I understand there is no guarantee a new barrel will either. The 80 ELD has a nice high BC, and is quite a bit cheaper (at my local store, ELDs are around $30/100, and TMK is $45/100) than the TMK for volume shooting. My goal is to shoot the 22 cal out to 1,000 yards on steel, to up my proficiency for hunting. The ELD would handle wind better too! I love 223 because the brass is cheap. The AI looks to me like the sweet spot. Standard brass that’s available everywhere, and no modification to the gun.

 

[Schmo]

@eric1115,
I do handload for AR, but only special precision loads, unless there’s an ammo shortage, then I will load FMJ myself. So I’m not too worried about that. The 223 and the AI obviously take the same virgin brass, so that’s easy enough. Also, I have some range pickups on hand in case I need to load cheap stuff for the AR.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Of those choices, .223/556

 

[hereinaz]

@hereinaz, thanks for the detailed reply! I’m tracking with you. My current barrel shoots the 77TMK really well (capable of under 1” 10 shot groups) with my handload, but so far, that’s the only bullet it likes. Yes, I will be handloading for any cartridge I pick.

My thought for changing barrels. I know the barrel is obviously not cheap, but I’d love to shoot the 80 ELD, and my current barrel does not like the 75 or 80 ELD. I understand there is no guarantee a new barrel will either. The 80 ELD has a nice high BC, and is quite a bit cheaper (at my local store, ELDs are around $30/100, and TMK is $45/100) than the TMK for volume shooting. My goal is to shoot the 22 cal out to 1,000 yards on steel, to up my proficiency for hunting. The ELD would handle wind better too! I love 223 because the brass is cheap. The AI looks to me like the sweet spot. Standard brass that’s available everywhere, and no modification to the gun.

Go AI, its the easy button to get more velocity, and with a faster twist and new barrel, you can likely shoot other bullets better. On steel to 1000, it will be a good challenge, because you are on the bubble for effectiveness.

Regret is what we need to watch out for in these decisions... So, if you will be disappointed that it will be harder, especially with some wind, then maybe prioritize it the ease of success.

To make it a little easier at the longer ranges, I think that the initial investment in a 22 ARC would pay dividends to get more velocity. There is also the other factor that short and fat makes loading long bullets easier. And, short and fat is where it's at for precision.

I personally wanted the longer range. I have a 22 ARC upper. Its sweet, but just not enough for me.

The only way to get the ballistic performance was with more velocity. I didn't need to go 22 creed or 22 GR. It's why I went 22 BR. Added velocity and known precision 6 BR cases. Sure, they are are more expensive, but when they last a very long time when not pushed, the cost averages out over the life of the barrel to pennies...

Weigh out how it will feel between a real challenge at 100 or more ease.

If you'll be happy playing to hit steel the .223 ai. But, if you really want success, go 22 ARC and you'll likely forget the extra cost as you are confidently hitting steel. If you go out and are just a little disappointed with the .223 AI, that lives with you and the feeling attaches to the gun.

I think if you picture yourself in the future, and see how you feel, that might help confirm your decision either way. Regret is a feeling, not a rifle...

 

[Axlrod]

Well another couple to think about are the 222 Magnum and the 22-204. The 22-204 has a 30* shoulder vs. 23* for the 222 Mag. Some guys run a 223AI reamer in deep and use 204 brass.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I will probably be ordering a barrel for my Tikka soon. Currently just running a standard 8 twist factory 223 barrel that I throated long with a uni-throater.

When I order, I will have my choice of 223, 223AI, or 22 ARC. I’m definitely going 7 twist, as I want to be able to shoot the 77 TMK, 75 ELD-M, and 80 ELD-M. I know the TMK only requires 8 twist, but 7 is recommended for the 75 & 80 ELD. Curious which cartridge to go with? My thought is either a standard 223 with some added freebore, or the 223AI with some added freebore. 22 ARC would obviously outdo them both, but brass is quite a bit more (I run Starline 223 brass), and I’d have to have the bolt face opened up.

I’m thinking the 223AI may be the sweet spot. I love the look of the AI cases, and it’d give me a 100 fps gain over standard 223. Yes, I’d have to fire form, but even fire form loads are typically more than accurate enough to hunt with.

What say you?

If federal comes out with a high pressure case for 223, you could see 3000 ft/s with 18” barrel

 

[cuerro viejo]

@hereinaz, thanks for the detailed reply! I’m tracking with you. My current barrel shoots the 77TMK really well (capable of under 1” 10 shot groups) with my handload, but so far, that’s the only bullet it likes. Yes, I will be handloading for any cartridge I pick.

My thought for changing barrels. I know the barrel is obviously not cheap, but I’d love to shoot the 80 ELD, and my current barrel does not like the 75 or 80 ELD. I understand there is no guarantee a new barrel will either. The 80 ELD has a nice high BC, and is quite a bit cheaper (at my local store, ELDs are around $30/100, and TMK is $45/100) than the TMK for volume shooting. My goal is to shoot the 22 cal out to 1,000 yards on steel, to up my proficiency for hunting. The ELD would handle wind better too! I love 223 because the brass is cheap. The AI looks to me like the sweet spot. Standard brass that’s available everywhere, and no modification to the gun.

I just ordered 500 77 TMK for $33/100 not including tax

 

[Schmo]

If federal comes out with a high pressure case for 223, you could see 3000 ft/s with 18” barrel

That case technology isn’t reloadable yet

 

[cuerro viejo]

That case technology isn’t reloadable yet

Solely from a component and die availability stand point, I image shot will have some interesting developments

 

[Schmo]

You have more faith than I do. Last I knew RCBS was having to make 12 passes through a sizing die to get the case resized successfully

 

[wind gypsy]

You have more faith than I do. Last I knew RCBS was having to make 12 passes through a sizing die to get the case resized successfully

I've seen this stated a fair bit, where did it come from?

 

[Schmo]

I've seen this stated a fair bit, where did it come from?

From the special S2H podcast they did on the 7 BC. That either came from RCBS, or one of the 4 gun makers that Ryan/Jake talked with.