.22 Mag

[Axlrod]

The OP isn’t talking about shooting something in the head at close range.

I was specifically talking about your post:
"It’s baffling to me that anyone would consider it for anything other than taking game in the most illegal and unethical manner possible."

I have seen it used many times in a LEGAL and ETHICAL manner taking game. And all shots were through the chest cavity, none were head shots. Just because your only first hand experience of the subject is intimate knowledge of the habits of poachers, doesn't mean everyone that uses a 22 mag is guilty of a crime.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I was specifically talking about your post:
"It’s baffling to me that anyone would consider it for anything other than taking game in the most illegal and unethical manner possible."

I have seen it used many times in a LEGAL and ETHICAL manner taking game. And all shots were through the chest cavity, none were head shots. Just because your only first hand experience of the subject is intimate knowledge of the habits of poachers, doesn't mean everyone that uses a 22 mag is guilty of a crime.

You are absolutely correct. I should be more open minded. I don’t have first hand knowledge of how effective a .22 Magnum is as a deer cartridge. For all I know, it could provide sufficient penetration and a wide enough wound channel to make clean kills on deer. I’ve never tried it because it is illegal where I hunt. The legality issue, however, also rules out .224 caliber centerfire rifles. So, while I know that a .223, .22-250, .22 ARC, .22 CM, etc., with a good bullet, are more than enough to kill deer, I’ve never done it personally.

I will also admit that I was an extreme skeptic when I first heard of the RokSlide thread about using .224 center fire cartridges for deer. I had the same prejudices against it that I have just shown against .22 Magnum. The only people I knew who used .224 center fire cartridges on deer were poachers. If you care to waste more of your life, you can go dig through my 24HourCampfire posts to see them. But I was eventually convinced by a large body of evidence.

The legality issue is simply a matter of jurisdiction. So, since it is legal in your jurisdiction, I would love to hear more about your experience using .22 Magnum as a deer cartridge. How many deer have you killed with it? What ranges? What sorts of wound channels do you see? What bullets work best? I’ll probably still be skeptical - and I will explain why below - but I will at least hear you out.

I’m also skeptical because I know people who use .22 Magnum, and the now obsolete .25 Stevens long, for wild turkeys. They specifically picked those cartridges because they provide sufficient penetration to reliably kill wild turkeys with body shots, but without excessive meat damage, at further ranges than a .22 LR. But, for all I know, modern .22 magnum bullets that aren’t just a hunk of lead can produce sufficient penetration and wound channels to do the job on deer. So, again, I shouldn’t have been so dismissive of the possibility that it would work.

 

[Undrcoverrednek]

.22 mag isn't known as the poacher's special for no reason. Plenty of VA deer back in the day neck shot that dropped on the spot....in the spotlight. Standard 40 grain jhp worked and no reason to believe it won't work now. If it's legal, give it a whirl and find out.

 

[Macintosh]

I have seen it used many times in a LEGAL and ETHICAL manner taking game. And all shots were through the chest cavity, none were head shots.

I'd be curious to hear your experience with regard to what ranges, what location of impact, and what the animal's reaction and wound channel was, as detailed as you are able. I'm not planning on trying, merely curious.

 

[Axlrod]

I'd be curious to hear your experience with regard to what ranges, what location of impact, and what the animal's reaction and wound channel was, as detailed as you are able. I'm not planning on trying, merely curious.

Not much useful info, i'm afraid. These were all Mountain lion kills at close range. We didn't open the chest cavity on any that I remember. We would skin them and take the backstraps. There were no bullet exits, and most seemed to expire as fast as being shot with a broadhead or a centerfire revolver (357, 41Mag, & 44 Mag).

Back in the early 80's a buddy bought a couple black & tan pups. His idea to train them (as he had no dogs that had ever chassed lions) was to cut a fresh track, and then follow the track until you jumped the cat. The first year we treed zero lions, and put on a LOT of steep snowy miles. So given we had little hope of ever shooting a lion, we stopped bringing a rifle and brought a borrowed Ruger Single Six in 22 Mag. Year two we started treeing some cats, and the Ruger worked well, so we each bought our own.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Not legal and to small.
Just because it can be done don’t mean it’s a good idea.
You can kill a deer with a field point but thats not the right thing to do either.
You owe it to the game to do your best for a quick kill.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

Crazy the guys I've seen on here expounding the virtues of hunting with the lowest recoiling, cheapest cartridge possible and talking about how close minded and dogmatic people who say "you need at least 1400ftlbs to kill elk" are. Then come onto this thread and act as if the ignition method of a cartridge magically makes it "unethical" to hunt with. What happened to bullets not headstamps?

If you find a 22wmr loading that reliably produces a wound channel that will kill when made in an target zone that you can reliably hit within your maximum shooting distance, there is absolutely ZERO reason ethically speaking not to hunt with it where legal.

The hypocrisy is unreal...

 

[Machingeaneer]

If you find a 22wmr loading that reliably produces a wound channel that will kill when made in an target zone that you can reliably hit within your maximum shooting distance, there is absolutely ZERO reason ethically speaking
not to hunt with it where legal.

This is a big "if", I think if someone brought some evidence to the table the tune would change quick.

 

[Kyguy]

If you find a 22wmr loading that reliably produces a wound channel that will kill when made in an target zone that you can reliably hit within your maximum shooting distance, there is absolutely ZERO reason ethically speaking not to hunt with it where legal.

The hypocrisy is unreal...

There's not really any .22 Mag ammo that reliably produces anything resembling a wound channel. Watch the gel tests on the tube. The V-max loads disintegrate in gel pretty much on contact, and all of the 40gr or 50gr loads pencil through the gel for around 12" and don't expand.

I mean yeah, you can poke a hole through lungs and something will die eventually. Maybe a heart shot would be quicker. Doesn't mean that it's a good tool for the job.

There's a reason bow hunters don't use field points for hunting even though it could do the same thing.

The argument that it's the poacher's favorite round doesn't hold water for its performance. Poachers are shooting things in the head so that it's DRT, not in the vitals with a chance it may run.

 

[menhaden_man]

 

[HoosierHunter07]

I think it's pretty funny guys on here debating taking a deer size animal with a .22 cal bullet. Meanwhile there are people who believe a human neck can stop a 30-06.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

There's not really any .22 Mag ammo that reliably produces anything resembling a wound channel. Watch the gel tests on the tube. The V-max loads disintegrate in gel pretty much on contact, and all of the 40gr or 50gr loads pencil through the gel for around 12" and don't expand.

I mean yeah, you can poke a hole through lungs and something will die eventually. Maybe a heart shot would be quicker. Doesn't mean that it's a good tool for the job.

There's a reason bow hunters don't use field points for hunting even though it could do the same thing.

The argument that it's the poacher's favorite round doesn't hold water for its performance. Poachers are shooting things in the head so that it's DRT, not in the vitals with a chance it may run.

Its a piece of lead traveling faster than the speed of sound. It produces a wound channel even if its not one you can kill effectively with. Someone else may be able to. I'm not trying to argue the merits of .22wmr. My point is, it is certainly capable of killing deer reliably within SOME set of constraints. What those constraints are is up for debate. But what I'm saying is, that if you are able to work within those constraints, there's zero reason you shouldn't if that's what you want to do. If the caveat is that it has to be a headshot, but you can hit a deer brain 99.9% of the time, then who's to say its "unethical" for you to do so?

 

[Kyguy]

I don't think the debate is about whether or not you can kill the deer with a 22 mag. The debate isn't even about taking head shots with it. I think the debate is whether it's ethical to use it when taking a shot at the vitals. Original poster was talking about out to 150 yards.. No one is head shooting a deer with a 22 mag at 150 yards, especially with even a whisper of wind.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

Op specifically asked about people's opinion on the performance of a particular loading and its effectiveness on deer. A bunch of people with self proclaimed zero experience with said load or even said cartridge on Op's targeted game jumped in and starting throwing around terms like "ethics", thereby derailing the conversation.

I appreciate that when you weighed in you at least cited gel tests as to why you don't think .22wmr should be used for deer hunting. However, I still think that blanket statements like

There's not really any .22 Mag ammo that reliably produces anything resembling a wound channel.

and

Poachers are shooting things in the head so that it's DRT, not in the vitals with a chance it may run.

are assumptions that are doing what assumptions are well known to do.

We don't know where Op likes to aim or how good he is. I'm personally not confident enough in my shooting ability to reliably hit a deer in the brain at 150 yards with a .22mag. Evidently you aren't either. But for all I know, OP shoots 50,000 rounds a year and can do it with relative ease. Do I think he does? Probably not. But he didn't make this thread to have his shooting ability audited.
He wants to know what people think 30gr Vmax will do to a deer out to 150yds. If the answer for someone is "wound it unless you hit it in the brain", then that's a totally reasonable thing to say. Then Op can make the decision not to if he knows he can't do that. What's not cool is coming in and telling him baselessly that he's a bad person if he does it regardless of any other factors and that he should not try because I couldn't personally get it done.

 

[Kyguy]

I don't think that anyone is telling him that he's a bad person? I didn't read one post saying that he's a piece of shit for wanting to use a .22 mag.

I did read lots of people are telling him that it's a bad decision to try poke a deer at 100 or 150 yards with a .22 Mag and a v-max. People with a lot of hunting and shooting experience. And maybe that experience does include using the .22 mag on deer, but since it's illegal in the majority of states, anyone who has actually killed deer with the .22 Mag hopefully isn't stupid enough to post about it on a public forum. Yet, maybe that's why they're saying not to use it.

This is where YOU are making assumptions about all of the other people posting about why they wouldn't use it.

If he'd said it's legal in my state and I'm going to head shoot them at 30 or 40 yards over a corn pile or food plot.... Go for it. I'd shoot deer all day long in the head at 30 yards with a .22 Mag if it was legal in my state.

Again, no is saying that the .22 Mag CAN'T kill deer. It obviously can and does. I think that if the world went to hell and the only ammo around was .22 Mag, we'd all be killing stuff with it to survive. Same with .22LR.

That still doesn't mean it's a good choice for deer out to 150 yards.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

I don't think that anyone is telling him that he's a bad person? I didn't read one post saying that he's a piece of shit for wanting to use a .22 mag.

I did read lots of people are telling him that it's a bad decision to try poke a deer at 100 or 150 yards with a .22 Mag and a v-max. People with a lot of hunting and shooting experience. And maybe that experience does include using the .22 mag on deer, but since it's illegal in the majority of states, anyone who has actually killed deer with the .22 Mag hopefully isn't stupid enough to post about it on a public forum. Yet, maybe that's why they're saying not to use it.

This is where YOU are making assumptions about all of the other people posting about why they wouldn't use it.

If he'd said it's legal in my state and I'm going to head shoot them at 30 or 40 yards over a corn pile or food plot.... Go for it. I'd shoot deer all day long in the head at 30 yards with a .22 Mag if it was legal in my state.

Again, no is saying that the .22 Mag CAN'T kill deer. It obviously can and does. I think that if the world went to hell and the only ammo around was .22 Mag, we'd all be killing stuff with it to survive. Same with .22LR.

That still doesn't mean it's a good choice for deer out to 150 yards.

Not sure what you would call someone you accuse of being willingly unethical other than bad. And if anyone on here has illegally shot deer with a .22mag, it sure wouldn't be hard to add in "I have seen .22mag fail and/or succeed on deer" as part of their reasoning why it should or shouldn't be used without admitting to anything.

 

[Kyguy]

Not sure what you would call someone you accuse of being willingly unethical other than bad. And if anyone on here has illegally shot deer with a .22mag, it sure wouldn't be hard to add in "I have seen .22mag fail and/or succeed on deer" as part of their reasoning why it should or shouldn't be used without admitting to anything.

That's kind of like being a participant in a crime..... or admitting to seeing a crime and not reporting it. Again, who's going to say that on a public forum if they have any sense? KY Fish and Wildlife officers I know have told me that social media has tremendously helped them catch violators, because people are dumb enough to post stuff. If you think that they aren't watching, you're wrong.

 

[SC HUNTER]

A 22 mag will kill the out of deer at 100 yards if you hit them in the head or neck. It's not legal in Georgia but there are a pile of deer killed every year off the side of the road with them.

I've shot alot of pigs with a 22 mag in traps, the bolt handle broke on that rifle so I replaced it with a 17hmr while it was out of commission. The 22 mag hits harder than the 17 does but I keep a 17 in the truck year round. Never know what might need killing. It works great on armadillos.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

That's kind of like being a participant in a crime..... or admitting to seeing a crime and not reporting it. Again, who's going to say that on a public forum if they have any sense? KY Fish and Wildlife officers I know have told me that social media has tremendously helped them catch violators, because people are dumb enough to post stuff. If you think that they aren't watching, you're wrong.

"Sorry officer, I was lying for clout on the internet."

 

[Ozarkansas]

and all of the 40gr or 50gr loads pencil through the gel for around 12" and don't expand.

That doesn’t quite jive with what I’ve seen on game, there’s definitely some .22 mag loads that expand reliably. The wound channels are still relatively tiny, but they expand