209 / 209M primer question - new to muzzleloading

[MississippiHunter]

Got drawn for NM elk muzzleloader. I am very excited, but now I'm building a muzzle-loader setup from scratch since muzzleloading is almost extinct in Mississippi due to relaxed "primitive weapon" restrictions. My muzzleloading knowledge is limited at best. I just bought a Traditions Vortek StrikerFire and plan to use 777 loose powder. All I can find for primers locally are CCI 209M primers and Cheddite 209 primers. I'm tempted to embrace "bigger is better" and get the magnum primers from CCI, but is that advisable?

 

[lazydrifter]

CCI209M are magnum primers. That is what the M stands for. Cheddite primers are also really hot. Either should work really well for 777 loose powder.

 

[wapitipaw]

NO. Do not use magnum or “hot” primers with 777. Low power/muzzleloader branded 209 are best, burn much cleaner and reduce carbon fouling in breech.

 

[dan33]

Primers are expensive but I would get both and see which your rifle likes best especially since you want to use loose powder. I have a cva wolf and can't see a difference between a cheddite, cci or "muzzleloader " primer but my dad's encore refuses to shoot anything but hot primers well.

 

[ElDiablito]

With 777, lower power is better. This has been well established. Any 209 primer will work but you’ll get much less of the infamous “crud ring” with 777 with a lower powered (“muzzy”) type 209. If those are your only two choices, I’d go with the Cheddites. Better yet is a #11 percussion cap for 777. It’s very easy to ignite.

 

[wapitipaw]

Primers are expensive but I would get both and see which your rifle likes best especially since you want to use loose powder. I have a cva wolf and can't see a difference between a cheddite, cci or "muzzleloader " primer but my dad's encore refuses to shoot anything but hot primers well.

Are your experiences with Blackhorn or 777. OP is using loose 777, and ignition with mild 209 is well assured.

 

[dan33]

Are your experiences with Blackhorn or 777. OP is using loose 777, and ignition with mild 209 is well assured.

777 and pyrodex are the only powders I have used. They definitely shot but not a good of a group as remington shotgun primers

 

[WCB]

NO. Do not use magnum or “hot” primers with 777. Low power/muzzleloader branded 209 are best, burn much cleaner and reduce carbon fouling in breech.

I use 777 FFFG loose and Federal 209A (which are equivalent to "magnum" shotshell primers). Also guys recommending "Muzzle Loader" primers need to understand that they mostly are just repackaged primers. Like the Federal 209MZ is a CCI 209M primer repacked essentially.

With the 209A or the CCI 109M and the 777 in my experience the fouling is no worse than 209A or 209M and Blackhorn 209. This is out of the same muzzleloaders (3 different ones). What people need to understand about primers is "hottness" is not an quantitative by how the consumer uses it. Some create more "pressure" and say they are "hotter" but they don't ignite the same as others. A quicker more efficient burn will lead to less residue. I can tell you when I use the Winchester 209 MZ primers I get far more residue in loose and pellets than 209A or 209M primers.

 

[dan33]

I use 777 FFFG loose and Federal 209A (which are equivalent to "magnum" shotshell primers). Also guys recommending "Muzzle Loader" primers need to understand that they mostly are just repackaged primers. Like the Federal 209MZ is a CCI 209M primer repacked essentially.

With the 209A or the CCI 109M and the 777 in my experience the fouling is no worse than 209A or 209M and Blackhorn 209. This is out of the same muzzleloaders (3 different ones). What people need to understand about primers is "hottness" is not an quantitative by how the consumer uses it. Some create more "pressure" and say they are "hotter" but they don't ignite the same as others. A quicker more efficient burn will lead to less residue. I can tell you when I use the Winchester 209 MZ primers I get far more residue in loose and pellets than 209A or 209M primers.

You are 100 percent on the difference in primers. From what I've seen it's also different between guns. Winchester 209mz in my cva wolf spits sparks out of the barrel just like cheddites do. Out of my dad's encore they do not. There's even an audible difference. I'm thinking it's a function of both barrel length and how tight the primers fit in the breech plug

 

[SloppyJ]

Any reason you're running tipple seven? I've had MUCH better results with BH209. With that powder, I use CCI magnums and a different plug with an expanded flash hole. No big deal either way just sharing what's worked for me.

That was the only thing I've ever done MZ related that gave me confidence. After trying everything I knew to do and shooting what felt like a roman candle at a few really nice trophies, I decided to change.

 

[MississippiHunter]

Any reason you're running tipple seven? I've had MUCH better results with BH209. With that powder, I use CCI magnums and a different plug with an expanded flash hole. No big deal either way just sharing what's worked for me.

That was the only thing I've ever done MZ related that gave me confidence. After trying everything I knew to do and shooting what felt like a roman candle at a few really nice trophies, I decided to change.

Mainly just availability and price. Because almost nobody in Mississippi hunts with a muzzleloader anymore, there isn’t anywhere around here that carries BH209.

 

[lnewton]

I know this is older but I am also headed to New Mexico for a muzzleloader hunt and have been using both the 777 209 primers with FFG triple 7 loose and the CCI 209m. I will say that the CCI primers do leave more of a crud ring than the 777 primers. I have picked up some federal ones premium 209MZ primers to try out also. The 777 and CCI primers shot well and I couldn’t tell a difference in accuracy but I could tell a difference when I would swab the barrel after 3 shots using each.

 

[ElDiablito]

I know this is older but I am also headed to New Mexico for a muzzleloader hunt and have been using both the 777 209 primers with FFG triple 7 loose and the CCI 209m. I will say that the CCI primers do leave more of a crud ring than the 777 primers. I have picked up some federal ones premium 209MZ primers to try out also. The 777 and CCI primers shot well and I couldn’t tell a difference in accuracy but I could tell a difference when I would swab the barrel after 3 shots using each.

That’s the experience most guys have with 777.

 

[Ditt44]

Don't overthink primers. I have used loose 777 in percussion guns and little #11 caps for years without issue. I have bought whatever primers were on the shelf in the past, magnum or not, and have not had any concerns. One cap gun I started using the Mag-Strike conversion for 209s because I had hundreds of them and percussion caps were scarce.

777 sucks with the crud ring. Percussion guns and my inline Pro Hunter all get it from loose powder or pellets.