2025 Mathew’s Bows

[sndmn11]

I’m with ya. Hoyt is always solid, I have shot them more than any brand and never had a problem, I even liked the Hoyt’s on the years that most didn’t (I would have zero issues shooting an rx1 for the rest of my days)

The RX8 I had for review here had two hunt ending failures in the handful of months I shot it before handing it off to @KickinNDishin . That has kept me from considering one for myself this year, although she wants to try the sd bows.

I have stripped deadlock screws on Bowtechs. I've nor had an issue with the handful of Elites we have had recently. And the Mach34 I have hasn't had any durability issues, but took me until yesterday to get close to feeling like it is tuned.

 

[Billy Goat]

Just listened to GoHunts podcast on the Mathews new bows, the Mathews guy basically said the same thing: left side limb and cam are fixed, limb shift micro adjusts the spacing of the mod-side limb which changes the loading and therefore the cam lean. About 24:10 into the podcast:

So are top hats still used for macro movements? Use limb shift for micro?


I guess need to pull one apart, but kinda seems like a pia now.

 

[jonesn3]

So are top hats still used for macro movements? Use limb shift for micro?


I guess need to pull one apart, but kinda seems like a pia now.

Not a Mathews owner, but it doesn’t sound like they use any top hats anymore. Limbs shift takes the place of top hats altogether, each full turn of the screw apparently equals a top hat (again, not a Mathews shooter, but that’s what the podcast and other videos suggested)

 

[Shooter Mike]

So are top hats still used for macro movements? Use limb shift for micro?


I guess need to pull one apart, but kinda seems like a pia now.

No, for the Lift X series bows there are no more top hats. The LST adjusts the top and bottom limbs. with the LST, there should be no reason to move the rest from center shot, either. Top hats got everything very, very close, but may have still required movement of center shot. LST eliminates the need to move center shot.

 

[jonesn3]

No, for the Lift X series bows there are no more top hats. The LST adjusts the top and bottom limbs. with the LST, there should be no reason to move the rest from center shot, either. Top hats got everything very, very close, but may have still required movement of center shot. LST eliminates the need to move center shot.

I really appreciate the tune ability of my RevoltX with the deadlock cams, so this feature in the Mathews LiftX is really interesting to me. So much so, that I would almost jump into the market for a bow this year

 

[Billy Goat]

No, for the Lift X series bows there are no more top hats. The LST adjusts the top and bottom limbs. with the LST, there should be no reason to move the rest from center shot, either. Top hats got everything very, very close, but may have still required movement of center shot. LST eliminates the need to move center shot.

I guess I'm having trouble seeing how you can move the cam by leverage on one limb and have the same adjustment range as you had through all top hats.



It would be nice if you didn't need to shim anymore, tho for myself it hasn't been an issue. But I have a press.

 

[Shooter Mike]

I guess I'm having trouble seeing how you can move the cam by leverage on one limb and have the same adjustment range as you had through all top hats.



It would be nice if you didn't need to shim anymore, tho for myself it hasn't been an issue. But I have a press.

It's not moving the cam so much as it is leveraging torque. By moving the right limbs one or two thousandths of an inch, you are affecting the torque applied by the cable guard to the limb tips. With top hats you changed cam position between the limbs to achieve this balance of torque on the limbs that is created by the cable system. Before shimming cams was a thing, we would twist the yoke on one side or the other to affect cam lean and achieve the desired center shot.

Adjusting torque by twisting the yoke or shimming/moving the cam is preferred over moving the rest. An example of this is, lets say you put on a brand new set of strings and cables and tune the bow... you go shoot a thousand or so shots and over time the bow is shooting just a bit left or a bit right .... do you think the rest has moved? Highly unlikely. Torque has become unbalanced because the string and cables have settled just a skosh (as every single set on the market will do). It wouldn't make sense to move the rest. You would want to return the cables and yokes back to the desired length to keep everything centerline down the bow.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[ddowning]

The RX8 I had for review here had two hunt ending failures in the handful of months I shot it before handing it off to @KickinNDishin . That has kept me from considering one for myself this year, although she wants to try the sd bows.

I have stripped deadlock screws on Bowtechs. I've nor had an issue with the handful of Elites we have had recently. And the Mach34 I have hasn't had any durability issues, but took me until yesterday to get close to feeling like it is tuned.

Curious on hunt ending failures. I would like to try to prevent them if preventable.

 

[Billy Goat]

It's not moving the cam so much as it is leveraging torque. By moving the right limbs one or two thousandths of an inch, you are affecting the torque applied by the cable guard to the limb tips. With top hats you changed cam position between the limbs to achieve this balance of torque on the limbs that is created by the cable system. Before shimming cams was a thing, we would twist the yoke on one side or the other to affect cam lean and achieve the desired center shot.

Adjusting torque by twisting the yoke or shimming/moving the cam is preferred over moving the rest. An example of this is, lets say you put on a brand new set of strings and cables and tune the bow... you go shoot a thousand or so shots and over time the bow is shooting just a bit left or a bit right .... do you think the rest has moved? Highly unlikely. Torque has become unbalanced because the string and cables have settled just a skosh (as every single set on the market will do). It wouldn't make sense to move the rest. You would want to return the cables and yokes back to the desired length to keep everything centerline down the bow.

Hopefully that makes sense.

I mean, I fully understand yoke tuning, did that for a long time.

But this is like twisting one side of the yoke without adjusting the other. Wasn't uncommon to make a slight adjustment, but you aren't really changing pressure on one limb. So your adjustments will only be half as much on the lean.


The cam isn't moving, so you need more leverage. The adjustment on the axle isn't that wide, not compared to how far I have seen some bows have needed TH adjustment.

 

[OR Archer]

I guess I'm having trouble seeing how you can move the cam by leverage on one limb and have the same adjustment range as you had through all top hats.



It would be nice if you didn't need to shim anymore, tho for myself it hasn't been an issue. But I have a press.

It’s basically doing the same as yoke tuning is the best way to describe it. Tipping the limb to cause the necessary cam lean to correct the tear.

 

[sndmn11]

Curious on hunt ending failures. I would like to try to prevent them if preventable.

Hoyt RX-8 Review

Hoyt RX-8 Carbon Bow Review. Find out how the Hoyt RX-8 worked for Kyle and Cindy as they tested it out at the range.

www.rokslide.com

There's at least one more 2024 Hoyt separate thread here with sheared mod screws as well.

Found it

Broken Hoyt Bow

Hoyt Alpha X 33 at 70lbs. Ive had this bow for 6 months. Bought it brand new in December. I’ve put about 25 arrows through it so far during today’s session with no issues. I start drawing back then notice that I’ve drawn back much further than I should be able to, and there is no tension...

rokslide.com

 

[Ho5tile1]

No matter how far it moves it will fix a 2 inch paper tare anyone needing more then that needs help not a top hat or anything else. As long as the limbs hold up with the new tuning system I’m good with it. All though top hats were easy and pretty fast to do with zero chance of it failing.. yes the new tuning method will be more easy and I’m sure faster but at what cost? Guess we will find out..I know I will lol


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[Jake Larsen]

No matter how far it moves it will fix a 2 inch paper tare anyone needing more then that needs help not a top hat or anything else. As long as the limbs hold up with the new tuning system I’m good with it. All though top hats were easy and pretty fast to do with zero chance of it failing.. yes the new tuning method will be more easy and I’m sure faster but at what cost? Guess we will find out..I know I will lol


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So will I haha. Finally upgrading from my VXR 31.5 the ability to tune at home without a press did it for me. Mathews is pretty well known for testing the crap out of their products before releasing, so I’m not too worried about it. That system is on literally every single bow in their lineup now, hunting and target. That means it got tested A LOT, just in the development of all the new bows. Hoping for the best

A 2 inch tear means the bow is either set up wrong/out of time or arrows are not spined correctly….

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[ddowning]

Hoyt RX-8 Review

Hoyt RX-8 Carbon Bow Review. Find out how the Hoyt RX-8 worked for Kyle and Cindy as they tested it out at the range.

www.rokslide.com

There's at least one more 2024 Hoyt separate thread here with sheared mod screws as well.

Found it

Broken Hoyt Bow

Hoyt Alpha X 33 at 70lbs. Ive had this bow for 6 months. Bought it brand new in December. I’ve put about 25 arrows through it so far during today’s session with no issues. I start drawing back then notice that I’ve drawn back much further than I should be able to, and there is no tension...

rokslide.com

Thank you. They claim loose mod screws cause those. Torqued and locked with fingernail polish. I'll check often. I do agree with you that it is likely a design issue or a crappy screw issue. Other possibility would be holes drilled and tapped out of spec for fastener.

 

[Billy Goat]

It’s basically doing the same as yoke tuning is the best way to describe it. Tipping the limb to cause the necessary cam lean to correct the tear.

It's not my lack of understanding of what and how it's doing it.

It's looking at it, seeing the amount of adjustment, and wondering if it actually provides enough range to do what it needs to do.


But, with the axle still fixed on one side with a bolt, then a lip in the axle to hold the cam. Probably can't move that side with a shim.

 

[sndmn11]

Thank you. They claim loose mod screws cause those. Torqued and locked with fingernail polish. I'll check often. I do agree with you that it is likely a design issue or a crappy screw issue. Other possibility would be holes drilled and tapped out of spec for fastener.

I wrote that review; my mod screws were blue loctite in and not loose. It took heat and a LH drill bit to get out.

The cable being cut is the issue that should have been caught in design/engineering if that bow couldn't stay on track at max DL and the cams shimmed over.

 

[Jake Larsen]

It's not my lack of understanding of what and how it's doing it.

It's looking at it, seeing the amount of adjustment, and wondering if it actually provides enough range to do what it needs to do.


But, with the axle still fixed on one side with a bolt, then a lip in the axle to hold the cam. Probably can't move that side with a shim.

If you’re getting a massive tear off a bow that’s properly timed, nock point is correct, cams are parallel, and rest is center shot, your arrow isn’t spined properly.

There’s already a bunch of YouTube videos of people tuning arrows with the Limbshift. They’re fixing average tears with ease from what I’ve seen. This is the tuning system in every single Mathew’s bow this year, hunting and target line. If it wasn’t adequate to tune a bow, they’d be screwed. That’s a lot of testing built in, just in the development of the new bows/lineup.


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[Billy Goat]

If you’re getting a massive tear off a bow that’s properly timed, nock point is correct, cams are parallel, and rest is center shot, your arrow isn’t spined properly.

There’s already a bunch of YouTube videos of people tuning arrows with the Limbshift. They’re fixing average tears with ease from what I’ve seen. This is the tuning system in every single Mathew’s bow this year, hunting and target line. If it wasn’t adequate to tune a bow, they’d be screwed. That’s a lot of testing built in, just in the development of the new bows/lineup.


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So how do you insure the cam position?


My curiosity has been settled. Played a bit with cam lean on an XD and a 29.5.




There's still a top hat present, I suspect almost none will need to change it, but the sweep of the cam lean at nocking point was only around 3/8" on the XD. 29.5 was around 1/2".

 

[Jake Larsen]

So how do you insure the cam position?


My curiosity has been settled. Played a bit with cam lean on an XD and a 29.5.

View attachment 795279


There's still a top hat present, I suspect almost none will need to change it, but the sweep of the cam lean at nocking point was only around 3/8" on the XD. 29.5 was around 1/2".

They make a laser alignment tool now also. Scope this video at 8:05

This is another method

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[Billy Goat]

They make a laser alignment tool now also. Scope this video at 8:05

This is another method

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I was asking it rhetorically.


You adjust it it by moving, and the point of everything I have said is I'm not certain this system as it is will provide enough movement as it is.


You don't need a laser to measure it, just a straight edge.