1st hunt, going to GMU 44

[Bar]

Thanks. I am in agreement also with your thoughts on new elk hunters coming to a forum and asking for spots to hunt. I believe I have made it crystal clear that my intensions are as far from that as possible. Maybe because I said I was new, and this is my first elk hunt, I automatically get tagged with that persona and people read past what I type and go straight to the negatives. I plan on contributing as much as possible, and figured this was as good as any place to start and let people get to know who I am. Maybe people see "info" as "where to hunt", I see it as just general information. Which, I might say, I have received quite a bit so far and am grateful for it. Brett, all intensions aside, jumped the gun on what my motives are and did not look at the actual words I typed.

I actually have a map from that website. I am like you and have mixed feelings about it too. Its the same feelings I have about the information that the biologist gave me. The fact is, if this is all information being given to who ever has the money or time to ask for it, then surely I am not the only one. So, the only thing that keeps me from hunting arms length from those other guys who have gone the path I have is how far they are willing to go into the woods and off the roads/trails. It does not bother me for others to have the info, nor for them to be hunting in the unit I am, but mainly for safety reasons I like to have some distance between myself and other hunters.

So while I have the map, I am taking it with a grain of salt for sure. That, and what the biologist told me, even though he had some good information to share and I believe him 100%.

I have a feeling that this might be one of those situations that closely resembles something we deal with here in my state. In my state, Arkansas, we have WMA's and other public places where the public can hunt without getting permits and are relatively close to higher populated areas - contrasted to the big blocks of national forest that do receive a lot of hunters, but are much larger in size and harder to access.

These smaller WMA's get a lot of hunting pressure because they are a relatively short drive for a lot of people, and easy access. Kind of what I am seeing with unit 44 in Colorado. If you go to some of the forums where people talk about these WMA's, you find a LOT of people who are less than happy to find out someone new is wanting to hunt the area. And regardless if that person is just coming on the forum to say "Hi", or "Hey, help me with finding a spot", they treat them the same way.

I have come to find out that hunting has become a sport instead of something people just like to do/enjoy. Just like any other sport, people find themselves in competition with others. If I was playing a game of football, baseball, basketball, etc, you bet that I am not going to tell you what my next move is or the tricks I have learned to do that enable me to have a greater advantage over you. Sure, I will throw out a tip or two, but not any major plays.

I get it. While I do not look at hunting that way, I know that others do. I respect it, and only ask for the same in return. I am not going to kill all the elk in the unit, I promise. I just want one little ole cow. That's it.

The best advice I can offer you is no matter what the outcome of your hunt...........have fun.

 

[MAT]

Show me one post where someone says where there's not a lot of hunters and tons of elk in any OTC unit in CO! Fact is the internet has ruined many a honey hole but that won't stop folks from asking. For me I rather learn where not to go, but that seems to be everywhere in CO.

Also you can ask Fish and Game where to go, but they will tell you the same thing they tell everyone else.

The only way to learn is to do, and a lot of where to go is guessing from afar. You never know the hunting situation until you show up as it changes every year, mostly based on stuff you read in forums like this.

 

[Newt]

Show me one post where someone says where there's not a lot of hunters and tons of elk in any OTC unit in CO! Fact is the internet has ruined many a honey hole but that won't stop folks from asking. For me I rather learn where not to go, but that seems to be everywhere in CO.

Also you can ask Fish and Game where to go, but they will tell you the same thing they tell everyone else.

The only way to learn is to do, and a lot of where to go is guessing from afar. You never know the hunting situation until you show up as it changes every year, mostly based on stuff you read in forums like this.

I have not gone through old posts on this site, but any other forum I have ever seen I have yet to find much in the way of anyone telling of any honey holes. So I am not sure how honey holes have been ruined by the internet.

What you said is exactly what I am trying to do. Learn about the places and areas I will not benefit from visiting. In other words, like I alluded to in my original post, there was a guy who hunted this unit a few years back. He saw neither hide nor hair of an elk. Said he looked high and low, deep and shallow, this way and that. I figured, it would not be too much to ask what area of the unit he was in. Not asking for a GPS trail, or anything else. If there were no elk seen, then no harm done right?

I think all the internet has done is serve to feed the fire of selfishness. Sure, it pops up in those who come on just asking for a place to go, but it also is seen fueling those who would rather not give people any help in hopes that they just go away and leave the unit one less hunter for them to have to compete with.

I see nothing wrong with guessing from afar. Sure, its not going to guarantee me anything, but I never asked for that. I get some people would rather just go in blind, but I have always been a planner. I learn by doing, but I also learn by listening. I get that elk are not going to be the same place every year at the same time on the same day. But I know that in a given area animals of any kind have a tendency to do one thing or another, relate to certain things, and have certain habits that can be pronounced. Besides all of that, asking general questions of the area, unless some major catastrophe has occurred, should provide a small amount of general information of an area that can be useful.

Its hard to say what that info is - because if I knew it I would not be asking for it. lol. But I know it exists. If someone was to ask me about hunting deer around here I could give them a lot of info about the area I hunt without giving my spots or ruining my hunting experience.

 

[Bar]

I started to elk hunting decades before computers, and hunting shows. I was also a NR to Colorado then. I came to Colorado for the first time in the 50's with my dad and brother. I was 14 at the time. We worked it out just fine, and got elk every year. It can be done, but you have to put in the work.

Before you say it. There were less hunters then, but there was also less elk too. Not much has changed in the odds of shooting an elk.

 

[gelton]

Thanks for the link Bar, just ordered up a map. Newt, feel free to fire away as there are plenty of people on here that will be glad to help. The only piece of advice that I'll give is to try and glean enough information to start focusing on a particular area of the unit and then get boots on the ground.

I can hike anywhere on google maps but when you are standing there looking at a 14,000 ft mountain with a 60 degree slope you realize how small you really are. Its very easy to come up with a nearly impossible gameplan when making decisions looking at google earth.

 

[Newt]

I started to elk hunting decades before computers, and hunting shows. I was also a NR to Colorado then. I came to Colorado for the first time in the 50's with my dad and brother. I was 14 at the time. We worked it out just fine, and got elk every year. It can be done, but you have to put in the work.

Before you say it. There were less hunters then, but there was also less elk too. Not much has changed in the odds of shooting an elk.

I think the Internet can give a false sense of knowledge for sure.

Ever since I started "using" the internet for information I take everything I read with the understanding that it could be the best information or the worst. After a while, I think if a person is bright enough, they can pick up on what info is useful and what is garbage. Obviously I think some information is still useful or else I would not be asking for it. lol

Wish I would have had opportunities to hunt like that when I was younger. I had to figure it out all on my own as I got old enough to do things like this on my own. Maybe that's why I appreciate gleaning some information from guys like the ones on here who are willing to share. Kind of like being able to sit around a campfire with them.

 

[Bar]

As long as they give specific info in a PM. Broadcasting it to the world is not good.

 

[Newt]

Thanks for the link Bar, just ordered up a map. Newt, feel free to fire away as there are plenty of people on here that will be glad to help. The only piece of advice that I'll give is to try and glean enough information to start focusing on a particular area of the unit and then get boots on the ground.

I can hike anywhere on google maps but when you are standing there looking at a 14,000 ft mountain with a 60 degree slope you realize how small you really are. Its very easy to come up with a nearly impossible gameplan when making decisions looking at google earth.

Thanks. This is true. But maps/google earth do help a lot more than not having anything. I was able to pick out a few spots to visit when I was out there in June, and I was able to visit them and see what they were like compared to what google earth showed. Some spots were a lot different looking in person, some not so much and almost what I had pictured they would look like.

I do not use google earth exclusively for studying the land. I use good topo maps also. Main thing I do like about google earth is you can generally see where different types of trees are(not so much the exact species, but deciduous vs conifers), where clearings are, where well used trails/roads are(if they are heavily used, they show up great), where good flowing streams are, and where larger bodies of water are.

What I cannot tell is where the springs are, what the actual benches and exact slope is(although google earth does have a feature that allows you to get pretty close), and of course.....I have yet to find an elk standing there in a picture taken by their cameras.

I've narrowed it down to two pretty specific areas. Like others who use this unit, or have looked at it know, there is not much area that is far from roads. There is some, but not much "as the crow flys". However, after visiting there, I do know that just because its within a mile as the bird flys, does not mean that someone is going to be hiking there that way. So I have come up with a few very specific spots I want to key in on while I am there.

One struggle I have is that I am not sure what to start with. Coming from such a low elevation I know I will have to acclimate. I did ok the couple of days I was up there, but I am not sure how I would have been had I stayed longer, plus we were in Denver for 5 days prior to going to the mountains.

So my main quandary is if I take it easy by finding a few different spots to glass, or if I just take it slow and do some hiking? Do I focus in on more of the security type cover, or more of the water/food type areas? As far as specific spots go, I have one area what would amount to about
4 square miles and another that covers about 8 square miles. Of course, I have no belief that I will even begin to cover all of that in a week and a half worth of time. So I am doing my best to narrow specific spots within those areas to strategically try to cover.

Guess that's why I am asking for info. Someone could try to convince me of an elk tied to a tree in another spot outside of what I am looking at and I would more than likely not care. Not that I would not be thankful they are willing to share, but I want to take the info I gather from those guys who have been in the unit and try to piece together a better plan than I have currently, or rather add to it, and draw tighter circles on the spots.

This all makes sense in my head at least. Maybe its not the way some people look at elk hunting, but its worked in many different ways in my life so far.

 

[Bar]

It seems you've gotten enough basic info to get the rest done by yourself and hunting partners. This forum along with other forums have given you this. You're getting close to asking for specific spots that have the least amount of hunters, and the most elk. That's a description of a honey hole.

http://www.muleymadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15406

 

[Newt]

It seems you've gotten enough basic info to get the rest done by yourself and hunting partners. This forum along with other forums have given you this. You're getting close to asking for specific spots that have the least amount of hunters, and the most elk. That's a description of a honey hole.

http://www.muleymadness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15406

Good for you, your an internet search wizard. If you wanted to know if I was asking about this anywhere else I would have told you. Did you read what I was asking over there, or are you just assuming like you are doing on this thread?


In case you didn't, let me reiterate what I was saying over there. I(yes me myself) was telling specific places that I(yes, that's me again) was planning on going to. I, was asking others(yes, this is where I ask others) what they thought of my(did you catch that?) plans. Now, I am not sure where asking for others spots comes into play here?

I find it interesting. Is this the unit you hunt Bar? You seem very touchy about it. If you could point out(copy and paste) where I am asking for specific spots that have the least amount of hunters and the most elk, I would love to see it.

Yes, I would love to have that knowledge, and quite frankly I have had other people tell me of a few spots that I could look at that would fit the bill(minus me asking them for that info), but honestly I don't take that kind of info and put much stock in it.

You have some kind of weird thing going on with me and its kind of creepy. I am, on this thread/site and on the other thread/site, asking to communicate with those who have hunted/live in the specific unit that I am going to hunt. Not, I repeat, not asking for specifics on where to go hunting, but on what their hunting was like and what the area was like.

I have never looked at asking someone (copy and pasted from the other thread), "do you think the hunting pressure will be that high during the muzzleloader hunt?" or "I have heard the same thing about the hunter density on Hardscrabble vs south of LEDE. Is it simply the roads on Hardscrabble? If thats the case, then would it make sense to think that as long as you are off the road a mile or so(where it is possible) that you get away from the crowds?" as more than just general information and feelings about the area.

Is this kind of scrutiny, and misinterpretation, normal on this site/forum?

 

[KMD]

Bar nailed it when he mentioned about 'newbies' joining a forum to ask for advice, then disappearing without contributing a dang thing. That type of parasitic posting gets old, quick. Would anyone feel bad for swatting a mosquito? 'Course not! So make sure your not acting like a mosquito...

In this age of 'instant gratification', seems some newbie hunters want their help served on a silver platter! As long as they feel questions are asked nicely, it shouldn't matter how specific or probing they may be. That type of ''gaming the system', exploits the good nature of fellow hunters for your own benefit, without giving anything in return. Naturally, that attitude tends to not sit well with guys who've done the work, spent the time, invested the money & sweat equity to earn an elk for themselves. Trying to circumvent that most integral part of the hunt takes away from the most basic trials & tribulations of it. IE, FINDING THE ELK!!!

When elk hunters spend hours upon hours & hike miles upon miles scouting, spend thousands of $$$ on gear, months of physical training and weeks away from family to go elk hunting...asking them for specifics on the 'net can tend to be a touchy subject. And playing the "hunters helping hunters" card is a cop-out, at best. IMHO, its bad form question a fellow hunter's good nature by asking for info that should be earned, not given! Hunter etiquette dictates that some questions are better when not asked at all...


So, quit whining about being 'misunderstood', and realize that you've been teetering on asking those types of questions. There's no way around doing the work for yourself and earning your elk! It may take a year, it may take 10, but by that time, you'll know enough to know about what questions will bring the flyswatters out...

I can tell you straight out...standing over a bull you called in & arrowed on public land in an OTC unit is just about as sweet as it gets!!! Especially when you live 1700 miles away from where you hunt, and still earned a spot amongst that ~10% of successful elk hunters every. ML season runs concurrent with archery, so realize that you're also in direct competition with all the stick & string hunters, too...

Let that be your motivation to earn an elk for yourself.
Most importantly, HAVE FUN and BE SAFE!!!

 

[Newt]

I'm not whining, I am stating a fact that is happening. Seems to me that the guys getting on a thread they did not start, accusing someone of something they did not say, and trying to derail the topic time after time are the ones "whining"........ I am being singled out, called out, because some guy decided to be sensitive over my original post. Call it teetering, or whatever you like, but the simple matter of fact is that I'm NOT being misunderstood(not sure where that came from), I am being falsely accused of something I have not done. You bet your pretty little undergarments I am going to take offense and defend myself because I for one AGREE with the first part of your post.

Your getting so caught up in it that you don't even realize that time after time I have stated that I am going to be hunting COW elk. I wont be standing over a bull, no matter how sweet it is. And I am not going to be in direct competition with those who are attempting to.

I think simple logic flies right past you guys who feel like your the top end elk hunters obviously because you have "figured it out" all on your own. When in reality, you might not have gotten your knowledge off the internet, but you got it from someone at some time, in some way. Yes, us "newbies" or "wanna be's" get on here and like to converse about the hunt.

If you all would put the flyswatters away, and not be so anise about using them, you might realize that all the bugs you feel need killin are actually beneficial. I guess, if this is your web site and forum then you have every right to make the determination, but it sounds like from me some of you just have some issues you need to work past.

Trust me, I'll have fun. If I never spoke to another sole about the hunt I'll still have fun. Try to calm down a little. Let the new guys talk about their upcoming hunt. Let them be excited and ask questions. Sure, slap their hand if they try to get into the cookie jar, but don't be so protective of it that you don't let them in the house to chat.

Good Grief!

 

[Bar]

I don't have enough interest in you to do a search. I'm a member of that forum, hunt with a muzzleloader, and noticed the thread. I also have no interest in unit 44. So, your assumptions on both are way off.

I gave you a link to a map that should give you all the info you need as a new elk hunter. Much more info than the average new hunter has for a 1st hunt. It turned out you already knew about the web site, and said you bought a map from them. Not enough for you though. You want more details.

I almost always ignore threads like this. I'm not sure why I didn't do it to this one too. It won't happen again. You're hunting for a cow during the rut. It can't get any easier. Just go hunt. It's not that hard.

 

[Newt]

I don't have enough interest in you to do a search. I'm a member of that forum, hunt with a muzzleloader, and noticed the thread. I also have no interest in unit 44. So, your assumptions on both are way off.

I gave you a link to a map that should give you all the info you need as a new elk hunter. Much more info than the average new hunter has for a 1st hunt. It turned out you already knew about the web site, and said you bought a map from them. Not enough for you though. You want more details.

I almost always ignore threads like this. I'm not sure why I didn't do it to this one too. It won't happen again. You're hunting for a cow during the rut. It can't get any easier. Just go hunt. It's not that hard.

Thanks for your input.

Call me weird, but I feel like a guy can never be too prepared for anything. Its not that the map isn't "enough", its the fact that I would like to know if there is anything else.

See, you and another are under this assumption that I want specific spots or 'areas' to go to. Like you just said, with that map its kind of a no brainer. So why would I be asking for those things? Light bulb moment here.....I'm not asking for those things.......

I'm not going to rehash what I am seeking after, but suffice to say that I am just plain ole excited to be going. Thought to myself, hey, lets chat with other guys who are going or have been. That's all. Nothing more. Put the guns down ma....its just little ole me.

 

[Bar]

Lots of threads for you to chat in. That would be refreshing for a new member asking where to hunt.

The only reason i'm on forums is to help answer questions, and shoot the bull a little. I just draw the line on telling someone where to hunt. I've always thought the hunter should figure that part out. Most of us old timers had to do it.

 

[ureyes]

I am always of the train of thought that if you help someone out without an expectation of return you will get that back 10 fold. For that reason I'm always up to help someone out with information if I have it.

I got on this forum asking about information on specific locations that I had preselected from pouring hours over maps. Probably totally over 100's of hours when considering researching before selecting the unit for draw. It would have been less time and easier to select sites in person. I had 2 people that were helpful in answering my questions and I am indebted and grateful for their generosity.

Its true that some people are dropping a good amount of money on perhaps a once in a lifetime chance to hunt big game. They don't have the luxury of living in the areas that they will be hunting. I'm disappointed that some people are such dicks about them asking questions for HELP......and I hope they get their just-desserts this season. One saying my momma used to use comes to mind...."if you ain't got something nice to say then keep your mouth shut"

I have no experience in unit 44 or I would offer some assistance.

My advice would be arrive more than a couple days before season opens so you can do a decent amount of scouting before the opener.

Good Luck.

 

[Bar]

I am always of the train of thought that if you help someone out without an expectation of return you will get that back 10 fold. For that reason I'm always up to help someone out with information if I have it.

I got on this forum asking about information on specific locations that I had preselected from pouring hours over maps. Probably totally over 100's of hours when considering researching before selecting the unit for draw. It would have been less time and easier to select sites in person. I had 2 people that were helpful in answering my questions and I am indebted and grateful for their generosity.

Its true that some people are dropping a good amount of money on perhaps a once in a lifetime chance to hunt big game. They don't have the luxury of living in the areas that they will be hunting. I'm disappointed that some people are such dicks about them asking questions for HELP......and I hope they get their just-desserts this season. One saying my momma used to use comes to mind...."if you ain't got something nice to say then keep your mouth shut"

I have no experience in unit 44 or I would offer some assistance.

My advice would be arrive more than a couple days before season opens so you can do a decent amount of scouting before the opener.

Good Luck.

So, some of us are dicks. Did your post do anything else to help?

 

[Newt]

We will be getting there Thursday afternoon before season. Right now I am trying to settle on one of two areas to spend those days looking over. I figure Thursday, only having half a day and in no way acclimated to the altitude, should be spent on relatively easy scouting. Friday we can split up into two separate scout trips, but not sure if I want to try and glass from a couple locations, or start to look for actual elk sign in the woods.

I really lean toward the glassing, even though the areas I am looking at do not seem like they would be ideal (what you see in videos and such) for glassing. I did find one spot while I was there that I could glass some from. It was a 45 min hike and would probably be the best spot for Thursday.

But in order to nail down where to start Friday I am at a loss. I guess it will come down to whether or not I want to sit/hike in an area where there are known bodies of water, or sit/hike in an area where there are no known bodies of water but potentially some springs.

Maybe we will luck out and get our cue from some elk bugling.

Speaking of which, if we do hear bugling, with us hunting cow elk is it worth our while to go in the direction of those bugles? I know that we may get burned and be tricked by hunters bugling, but I am hoping we will be able to tell the difference somewhat between real and fake.

 

[MAT]

Here's a fact of life, you are openly seeking advice on 1 of 2 spots in GMU 44 so we have a good idea of where you will be hunting. Then you post a pic in Sept of the bull you killed and there goes your new honey hole. As much as I hate to say it I look to the internet for bits of info just like this. I’ve been trying to find a spot in MT w/o bears as I hunt solo but all the advice I get is “there’s lots of hunters” in that area. I am sworn to secrecy as I don’t want to ruin any honey holes but there are way too many willing to share locations. You might not be the only person they tell either.

Sure there are good people willing to help you out but I’m 99% sure they won’t be hunting there. Eastmans is classic for telling everyone where to go to lead them away from their hotspots. The sad fact is there are too many elk hunters on public land. And CO runs their program to maximize income by having unlimited tags and concurrent seasons (ML during bow).

 

[Newt]

Here's a fact of life, you are openly seeking advice on 1 of 2 spots in GMU 44 so we have a good idea of where you will be hunting. Then you post a pic in Sept of the bull you killed and there goes your new honey hole. As much as I hate to say it I look to the internet for bits of info just like this. I’ve been trying to find a spot in MT w/o bears as I hunt solo but all the advice I get is “there’s lots of hunters” in that area. I am sworn to secrecy as I don’t want to ruin any honey holes but there are way too many willing to share locations. You might not be the only person they tell either.

Sure there are good people willing to help you out but I’m 99% sure they won’t be hunting there. Eastmans is classic for telling everyone where to go to lead them away from their hotspots. The sad fact is there are too many elk hunters on public land. And CO runs their program to maximize income by having unlimited tags and concurrent seasons (ML during bow).

Speechless......