1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

[RockAndSage]

And don't forget the Buls ...

תודה

 

[rdramsey8]

Forgive me for a slight derailment but how many guys are actually conceal carrying 2011s? I went to my LGS today and got my paws on a Stacatto C. It felt like it was meant for my hand, but damn those are big hunks of metal! I have no doubts about its shootability, but based on the size it seems like a range toy (or comp gun). If people are hiding these on their body I need to learn what they’re doing.

Full-size 1911 w/ light and optic in a Tenicor Velo Lux AIWB holster

 

[RWT]

The majority of the pics I see of a Commander or larger pistol being carried AIWB require a jacket, hoodie or some form of an over shirt to be concealed. I am in Texas where half the year it is 95+ with 80% humidity. I am interested in seeing AIWB or IWB in shorts, no belt and a Tshirt. The majority of the CS/FS pistols print. If I am going to print I would just as soon be comfortable and OWB. I end up with pocket carry more often.

I purchased a more sturdy belt and am still printing a S&W bodyguard in jeans and a Tshirt. I’ve ever found an IWB comfortable that doesn’t print

 

[rdramsey8]

The majority of the pics I see of a Commander or larger pistol being carried AIWB require a jacket, hoodie or some form of an over shirt to be concealed. I am in Texas where half the year it is 95+ with 80% humidity. I am interested in seeing AIWB or IWB in shorts, no belt and a Tshirt. The majority of the CS/FS pistols print. If I am going to print I would just as soon be comfortable and OWB. I end up with pocket carry more often.

I purchased a more sturdy belt and am still printing a S&W bodyguard in jeans and a Tshirt. I’ve ever found an IWB comfortable that doesn’t print

I regularly carry my full-size 1911 wearing just an Orvis fly fishing shirt without any printing issues. I could probably do it with a t-shirt too, but I pretty much just wear fishing shirts all summer.

 

[Formidilosus]

I am interested in seeing AIWB or IWB in shorts, no belt and a Tshirt.

No belt is not a thing. Doesn’t even make sense.

I wear t-shirts and shorts or pants- as there is no difference in concealment, nearly every day of the year. From April to October it’s just a t-shirt.

The majority of the CS/FS pistols print. If I am going to print I would just as soon be comfortable and OWB. I end up with pocket carry more often.

Every pistol prints to some extent. There’s a very large difference between “covered and concealed but there is a small bump I can see because I know it’s there”, and “it’s sitting open on my hip”.

I purchased a more sturdy belt and am still printing a S&W bodyguard in jeans and a Tshirt. I’ve ever found an IWB comfortable that doesn’t print

IWB on the side will print more. If you can’t conceal a Bodyguard AIWB you have a crap holster and a crap belt.

 

[43.6N]

Forgive me for a slight derailment but how many guys are actually conceal carrying 2011s? I went to my LGS today and got my paws on a Stacatto C. It felt like it was meant for my hand, but damn those are big hunks of metal! I have no doubts about its shootability, but based on the size it seems like a range toy (or comp gun). If people are hiding these on their body I need to learn what they’re doing.

I carried this 1911 with Magwell all day today with just a Tshirt.
The Tenicor is a really good holster. 12’clock indexed appendix iwb.

I find the shape and width of the full sized grip and magwell conceals better then my gen5 Glock 19, and about as well as the p365xl with a Wilson grip module. I can’t speak for the 2011 grips in your post, but seriously 0 issues with carrying the more traditional single stack 1911’s.

 

[fwafwow]

I’ve got a few more holsters inbound to check out. For my C (2024) got in hand the Velo5 and TT Gunleather for AIWB and IWB 3 o’clock respectively. I’ve ordered for the CS (2024) a TT Gunleather and G-Code Phenom Stealth, both for AIWB. I will report back.

 

[Dobermann]

A good appendix holster. I know quite a few dudes CCW’ing every waking minute out of their houses with 2011’s- I did too for 4-5 years.

Out of curiosity, what do you carry these days, Form? And why that over a 2011?

 

[Formidilosus]

Out of curiosity, what do you carry these days, Form?

A hand built full-size 1911 in 9mm. Before that it was a Springfield Professional.

But I have and do carry a variety of pistols given circumstances- 2011’s, M18/17’s, G19/G45’s, etc.

And why that over a 2011?

Because a properly built 9mm 1911 has no equal in shootability. It is more forgiving in grip, trigger press, and torque than any other pistol- including 2011’s…. And the more stressed you are, the more tired, the more injured- the larger the difference. The 1911 is also thinner and easier to conceal.

My base requirement of performance for a “carry” pistol is “speed bullseye”- and a proper 1911 owns that world.

 

[RockAndSage]

“speed bullseye”

Is this an actual thing, or is it what you call a certain kind of precision at-speed you train for?

Any specific drills or standards for it you'd share?

 

[Dave0317]

Is this an actual thing, or is it what you call a certain kind of precision at-speed you train for?

Any specific drills or standards for it you'd share?

Im not who you asked, but I love that style of drill, if it is what I understand him to mean.

Maybe like this…

 

[TradLife406]

You can rock no belt with a Leisure carry thinger. Works great with sweats or gym shorts.
Just reinforces the waist band. Ha I was doing dry fire drills with my Kimcatto the other day using it with my pj pants the other day.

Put another 100+ through the 2k11 yesterday. Still no failures.

 

[TradLife406]

You can rock no belt with a Leisure carry thinger. Works great with sweats or gym shorts.
Just reinforces the waist band. Ha I was doing dry fire drills with my Kimcatto the other day using it with my pj pants the other day.

Put another 100+ through the 2k11 yesterday. Still no failures.

Did manage to take a cotton tail for the soup pot at 50 yards, right behind the shoulder. Didn't go 20
Don't think I'd have been able to do that with a Glock.

 

[RockAndSage]

Im not who you asked, but I love that style of drill, if it is what I understand him to mean.

Maybe like this…

That makes sense, and is how I've largely been wired too - especially with what you could call practical precision/combat precision/quick precision, etc. Though, admittedly, I've historically overfocused on precision, but recently had a pretty big breakthrough on the speed side of things. That's why when @Formidilosus mentioned "speed bullseye" it caught my attention. He's shared FBI pistol-instructor qual standards before, which sound like this and similar to the Defoor video you posted, but I was wondering if speed bullseye was an actual thing, or if he had set drills and standards he'd developed for his own priorities on that skillset.

I personally think it's a critical concept, and a largely neglected one. Especially for anyone who might need to use a handgun outside of the classic conversation-distance encounters, or who can't afford risking the dangers of anything other than an instant stop to a threat. But it just doesn't seem to get much attention - guys are either banging-away at close in go-fast stuff, or executing on B8s at combat-glacial pace. That video you posted is a great blend.

I don't really have an exact term for it, but this is what I mean by quick precision - current drill is 5yds, cut color with a hit, under 2 seconds draw and fire. But I'd be very interested in learning of others that get at speed precision, especially from the draw. Right now, most of my shots are hovering around 1.5 seconds. The ace is obviously a cherry-picked example, and the 3s are more typical, but on any given day about half of my draw-and-fire shots are cutting the spot under par time, with about 90% of the rest within a bullet's width of touching color:

 

[Dave0317]

That makes sense, and is how I've largely been wired too - especially with what you could call practical precision/combat precision/quick precision, etc. Though, admittedly, I've historically overfocused on precision, but recently had a pretty big breakthrough on the speed side of things. That's why when @Formidilosus mentioned "speed bullseye" it caught my attention. He's shared FBI pistol-instructor qual standards before, which sound like this and similar to the Defoor video you posted, but I was wondering if speed bullseye was an actual thing, or if he had set drills and standards he'd developed for his own priorities on that skillset.

I personally think it's a critical concept, and a largely neglected one. Especially for anyone who might need to use a handgun outside of the classic conversation-distance encounters, or who can't afford risking the dangers of anything other than an instant stop to a threat. But it just doesn't seem to get much attention - guys are either banging-away at close in go-fast stuff, or executing on B8s at combat-glacial pace. That video you posted is a great blend.

I don't really have an exact term for it, but this is what I mean by quick precision - current drill is 5yds, cut color with a hit, under 2 seconds draw and fire. But I'd be very interested in learning of others that get at speed precision, especially from the draw. Right now, most of my shots are hovering around 1.5 seconds. The ace is obviously a cherry-picked example, and the 3s are more typical, but on any given day about half of my draw-and-fire shots are cutting the spot under par time, with about 90% of the rest within a bullet's width of touching color:

Since you mention “from the draw”

10 individual iterations of draw and shoot one round. 3.5 second par time. No misses allowed, one of the 10 shots can go over time.

Best I’ve done is getting all under time, 8/10 hits. So technically a fail, but I’m working on it.

 

[RockAndSage]

Since you mention “from the draw”

10 individual iterations of draw and shoot one round. 3.5 second par time. No misses allowed, one of the 10 shots can go over time.

Best I’ve done is getting all under time, 8/10 hits. So technically a fail, but I’m working on it.

Dude, that's perfect. A couple of good friends have trained with Pressburg, and speak quite highly of his coursework, but somehow I'd never actually seen the actual "no fail" drill or its specific standards. Thanks for posting that, it's exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of.

 

[43.6N]

That makes sense, and is how I've largely been wired too - especially with what you could call practical precision/combat precision/quick precision, etc. Though, admittedly, I've historically overfocused on precision, but recently had a pretty big breakthrough on the speed side of things. That's why when @Formidilosus mentioned "speed bullseye" it caught my attention. He's shared FBI pistol-instructor qual standards before, which sound like this and similar to the Defoor video you posted, but I was wondering if speed bullseye was an actual thing, or if he had set drills and standards he'd developed for his own priorities on that skillset.

I personally think it's a critical concept, and a largely neglected one. Especially for anyone who might need to use a handgun outside of the classic conversation-distance encounters, or who can't afford risking the dangers of anything other than an instant stop to a threat. But it just doesn't seem to get much attention - guys are either banging-away at close in go-fast stuff, or executing on B8s at combat-glacial pace. That video you posted is a great blend.

I don't really have an exact term for it, but this is what I mean by quick precision - current drill is 5yds, cut color with a hit, under 2 seconds draw and fire. But I'd be very interested in learning of others that get at speed precision, especially from the draw. Right now, most of my shots are hovering around 1.5 seconds. The ace is obviously a cherry-picked example, and the 3s are more typical, but on any given day about half of my draw-and-fire shots are cutting the spot under par time, with about 90% of the rest within a bullet's width of touching color:

@RockAndSage @Dave0317 good drills, thanks for posting.
“Speed-bullseye” I think is going to be similar in ethos to reports on how @Formidilosus coaches up the students in the S2H courses. IE “on demand” and “under stress”

Heart rate probably needs to be elevated. And there probably needs to be a time standard.

My personal bias: since getting introduced to USPSA 3 months ago (because of this thread) the combo of footwork and accuracy is what jumped out in my mind when I hear “speed bullseye”

I’ve been hammering the following drill religiously. And, I’ve got myself down to a consistent 25 seconds. The single fastest time I’ve been able to find someone complete it in was 18 and change. So until someone can post a faster time, I would say that’s probably the 100th percentile.

Figure 5 drill.

10” plate (but “speed bullseye” would probably require a B8 or 10-8 fbi scoring target)
-center position is 15yds.
-2 near positions are 10yds
-2 far positions are 20yds.
-single shot from each position, returning to center each time. 9shots total.

 

[id_jon]

@RockAndSage @Dave0317 good drills, thanks for posting.
“Speed-bullseye” I think is going to be similar in ethos to reports on how @Formidilosus coaches up the students in the S2H courses. IE “on demand” and “under stress”

Heart rate probably needs to be elevated. And there probably needs to be a time standard.

My personal bias: since getting introduced to USPSA 3 months ago (because of this thread) the combo of footwork and accuracy is what jumped out in my mind when I hear “speed bullseye”

I’ve been hammering the following drill religiously. And, I’ve got myself down to a consistent 25 seconds. The single fastest time I’ve been able to find someone complete it in was 18 and change. So until someone can post a faster time, I would say that’s probably the 100th percentile.

Figure 5 drill.

10” plate (but “speed bullseye” would probably require a B8 or 10-8 fbi scoring target)
-center position is 15yds.
-2 near positions are 10yds
-2 far positions are 20yds.
-single shot from each position, returning to center each time. 9shots total.

This will be my homework this week, as well as Joey Saurlands recent drill here: https://www.instagram.com/goshootwin/reel/DWpL98hEXmI/

 

[RockAndSage]

@RockAndSage @Dave0317 good drills, thanks for posting.
“Speed-bullseye” I think is going to be similar in ethos to reports on how @Formidilosus coaches up the students in the S2H courses. IE “on demand” and “under stress”

Heart rate probably needs to be elevated. And there probably needs to be a time standard.

My personal bias: since getting introduced to USPSA 3 months ago (because of this thread) the combo of footwork and accuracy is what jumped out in my mind when I hear “speed bullseye”

I’ve been hammering the following drill religiously. And, I’ve got myself down to a consistent 25 seconds. The single fastest time I’ve been able to find someone complete it in was 18 and change. So until someone can post a faster time, I would say that’s probably the 100th percentile.

Figure 5 drill.

10” plate (but “speed bullseye” would probably require a B8 or 10-8 fbi scoring target)
-center position is 15yds.
-2 near positions are 10yds
-2 far positions are 20yds.
-single shot from each position, returning to center each time. 9shots total.

Oh man, that's a great one, especially for cardio elevation and conditioning to move out with speed. How are the positions set up exactly? Is it like a 5-spot on dice? And, are the distances to the target itself, or to the target's line?

 

[43.6N]

Oh man, that's a great one, especially for cardio elevation and conditioning to move out with speed. How are the positions set up exactly? Is it like a 5-spot on dice? And, are the distances to the target itself, or to the target's line?

Just like a 5 spot on a dice.
10, 15, and 20 yd target lines
Each of the 4 corners are 10yds from the next corner. So 10x10 square.
Run the positions in whatever order gets you the fastest time. But have to start in center, and move back to center after each shot.