1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

[Dobermann]

The search for oils continues ...

I sourced some G96 Liquid Gun Grease. I said earlier that I love G96 Gun Treatment and would possibly use it as a beard oil if it wasn't likely to kill me ... well, the Gun Grease label explicitly says right at the top of the label: "CAUTION: MAY IRRITATE EYES AND SKIN. Do not get in eyes. Do not get on skin or clothing." So perhaps not a great option for either shooting or carrying pistols.

So I sourced some CRC Lanocote, which is lanolin mixed with fish oil and likely some synthetics. I've used this in spray applications on tools and farm equipment with good results ... but the grease stinks and I don't think I'd want to either shoot it, or carry something treated with it. AIWB this sh!t and your nether region would smell like a combination of dead sheep and dead fish. Only one of those would be bad enough. Banished to the tool shed.

This had me re-thinking @Formidilosus's recommendation of avoiding synthetics and using olive oil. I also remembered that it was used to protect armour in medieval times - with good performance/outcomes - but can't now remember what the chemical reason is for this. Initial experiments are that it works but can smell a bit ... fruity. And, being oil, can be drippy if over-applied / doesn't last as well as grease.

So I'm now wondering about coconut oil (more solid, so more like grease), perhaps mixed with avocado oil (https://cocavo.co.nz/product/cocavo-pure-400g/). Will report back in a few months.

This is the kind of rabbit-hole that @fwafwow would go down ... I did the same thing last year with heat exchanging stoves. Such productive use of time off work!

 

[43.6N]

The search for oils continues ...

I sourced some G96 Liquid Gun Grease. I said earlier that I love G96 Gun Treatment and would possibly use it as a beard oil if it wasn't likely to kill me ... well, the Gun Grease label explicitly says right at the top of the label: "CAUTION: MAY IRRITATE EYES AND SKIN. Do not get in eyes. Do not get on skin or clothing." So perhaps not a great option for either shooting or carrying pistols.

So I sourced some CRC Lanocote, which is lanolin mixed with fish oil and likely some synthetics. I've used this in spray applications on tools and farm equipment with good results ... but the grease stinks and I don't think I'd want to either shoot it, or carry something treated with it. AIWB this sh!t and your nether region would smell like a combination of dead sheep and dead fish. Only one of those would be bad enough. Banished to the tool shed.

This had me re-thinking @Formidilosus's recommendation of avoiding synthetics and using olive oil. I also remembered that it was used to protect armour in medieval times - with good performance/outcomes - but can't now remember what the chemical reason is for this. Initial experiments are that it works but can smell a bit ... fruity. And, being oil, can be drippy if over-applied / doesn't last as well as grease.

So I'm now wondering about coconut oil (more solid, so more like grease), perhaps mixed with avocado oil (https://cocavo.co.nz/product/cocavo-pure-400g/). Will report back in a few months.

This is the kind of rabbit-hole that @fwafwow would go down ... I did the same thing last year with heat exchanging stoves. Such productive use of time off work!

Man, I too would love to know how that olive-coconut oil combo treats you.

I’ve been using white lithium grease for my carry gun this last year without complaints or hiccup. But I sure would prefer a more skin friendly, and not petroleum based option.

 

[nephewjephew]

Olive oil does work. As far as cooking oils go it’s on the lower end for smoke point, as is coconut oil. Grape seed and avocado have very high smoke points. Then there is rape seed oil. Which is an industrial lubricant, and the food “safe” version of that is what we call canola oil. Do with that what ya will.

 

[RockAndSage]

The search for oils continues ...

I sourced some G96 Liquid Gun Grease. I said earlier that I love G96 Gun Treatment and would possibly use it as a beard oil if it wasn't likely to kill me ... well, the Gun Grease label explicitly says right at the top of the label: "CAUTION: MAY IRRITATE EYES AND SKIN. Do not get in eyes. Do not get on skin or clothing." So perhaps not a great option for either shooting or carrying pistols.

So I sourced some CRC Lanocote, which is lanolin mixed with fish oil and likely some synthetics. I've used this in spray applications on tools and farm equipment with good results ... but the grease stinks and I don't think I'd want to either shoot it, or carry something treated with it. AIWB this sh!t and your nether region would smell like a combination of dead sheep and dead fish. Only one of those would be bad enough. Banished to the tool shed.

This had me re-thinking @Formidilosus's recommendation of olive oil. I also remembered that it was used to protect armour in medieval times - with good performance/outcomes - but can't now remember what the chemical reason is for this. Initial experiments are that it works but can smell a bit ... fruity. And, being oil, can be drippy if over-applied / doesn't last as well as grease.

So I'm now wondering about coconut oil (more solid, so more like grease), perhaps mixed with avocado oil (https://cocavo.co.nz/product/cocavo-pure-400g/). Will report back in a few months.

This is the kind of rabbit-hole that @fwafwow would go down ... I did the same thing last year with heat exchanging stoves. Such productive use of time off work!

For a 1911, you can cut to the chase and source either TW25b, or cherry balms. Those tend to get me about 2-5 times the shooting compared to oils before needing to reapply. Everything else works, yes, but that's not the question. A better question on any given gun lube, is how long will something work on a given gun, how well, and under what conditions.

Things like plant-derived oils tend to have really good high-temperature properties. But, depending on their refinement quality, they can often polymerize, and end up getting increasingly sticky over time. It's generally not an issue if you're shooting and re-applying regularly, but shoot a gun hot, stick it in storage (or a night stand) for six months, and some will actually be tacky. As in, slides going in slow-motion tacky. FireClean and Frog Lube were both a disaster with this issue. Plant-derived oils are also generally the worst in cold temperatures, alongside industrial greases, when used in guns. Stick a bottle of it in your freezer overnight to see what happens. Again, they're totally usable - it's just a question of limitations. Know the limitations, and you're fine.

I live in a place that can commonly get to 0F most winters, but over 100F in summers. CCW guns don't need to worry about cold as much, as almost all lubricants people use on guns are fine with that body temp. But OWB carry for duty or ranch type work in winter, that lube on those guns only gets a fraction of that body heat. Same with long guns. Different lubes freeze up at different rates, but there aren't many that are stone-cold reliable down below -20F. The only greases I know of that do well in extreme cold are TW25b, cherry balms, and Geissele's stuff, which is generally thinner than what I want in a grease. I prefer a good grease on guns because it stays put better - especially in high heat - and actually acts like a sealant to keep crap out of the bearing surfaces. There's just not many that are properly designed for guns.

If you really want to experiment and do a little redneck engineering, just take an automotive grease, and add motor oil and stir, adding until it's about the consistency of a lotion. That will get you about 80% of the performance of the greases I mentioned, and is right in the ballpark for the thickness that gives maximum reliability in guns.

 

[fwafwow]

So I'm now wondering about coconut oil (more solid, so more like grease), perhaps mixed with avocado oil (https://cocavo.co.nz/product/cocavo-pure-400g/). Will report back in a few months.

This is the kind of rabbit-hole that @fwafwow would go down ... I did the same thing last year with heat exchanging stoves. Such productive use of time off work!

I can’t say that the above is of interest to me, but one man’s rabbit hole (I prefer “extension of knowledge”) is another’s folly. I tend to spend time in the latter camp.

I’m trying to be more productive when I’m wasting time (!). I just remembered I keep a “rabbit hole list” and added “wool detergents” to it. Back to narrowing/revamping/culling my go bags after they have sat for 20 years. Did I really need to include a bar of soap?

 

[Dobermann]

I can’t say that the above is of interest to me, but one man’s rabbit hole (I prefer “extension of knowledge”) is another’s folly. I tend to spend time in the latter camp.

I’m trying to be more productive when I’m wasting time (!). I just remembered I keep a “rabbit hole list” and added “wool detergents” to it. Back to narrowing/revamping/culling my go bags after they have sat for 20 years. Did I really need to include a bar of soap?

Hey, I saved you from the wool detergent rabbit-hole and just gave you the recommended options - so you had more time for much more fruitful rabbitholes extensions of knowledge.

 

[Dobermann]

For a 1911, you can cut to the chase and source either TW25b, or cherry balms. Those tend to get me about 2-5 times the shooting compared to oils before needing to reapply. Everything else works, yes, but that's not the question. A better question on any given gun lube, is how long will something work on a given gun, how well, and under what conditions.

Things like plant-derived oils tend to have really good high-temperature properties. But, depending on their refinement quality, they can often polymerize, and end up getting increasingly sticky over time. It's generally not an issue if you're shooting and re-applying regularly, but shoot a gun hot, stick it in storage (or a night stand) for six months, and some will actually be tacky. As in, slides going in slow-motion tacky. FireClean and Frog Lube were both a disaster with this issue. Plant-derived oils are also generally the worst in cold temperatures, alongside industrial greases, when used in guns. Stick a bottle of it in your freezer overnight to see what happens. Again, they're totally usable - it's just a question of limitations. Know the limitations, and you're fine.

I live in a place that can commonly get to 0F most winters, but over 100F in summers. CCW guns don't need to worry about cold as much, as almost all lubricants people use on guns are fine with that body temp. But OWB carry for duty or ranch type work in winter, that lube on those guns only gets a fraction of that body heat. Same with long guns. Different lubes freeze up at different rates, but there aren't many that are stone-cold reliable down below -20F. The only greases I know of that do well in extreme cold are TW25b, cherry balms, and Geissele's stuff, which is generally thinner than what I want in a grease. I prefer a good grease on guns because it stays put better - especially in high heat - and actually acts like a sealant to keep crap out of the bearing surfaces. There's just not many that are properly designed for guns.

If you really want to experiment and do a little redneck engineering, just take an automotive grease, and add motor oil and stir, adding until it's about the consistency of a lotion. That will get you about 80% of the performance of the greases I mentioned, and is right in the ballpark for the thickness that gives maximum reliability in guns.

Thanks for all of that. I did consider your earlier recommendations. G96 was slightly easier for me to source than TW25b, but the screaming warning put me in mind of Form's comments about synthetics.

It doesn't get as cold here as where you are, but initial explorations have me leaning more towards greases also.

I've also had 'organic' stuff gum up - I've leaned towards lanolin-based products for years (some options are Lanotec, Lanoguard, Lanox, and Lanocote), and they've been fine for things that are wiped down thinly and then cleaned and reapplied, or used often - but as you said, can get gummy.

The CherryBalmz stuff looks interesting. And they even have a FAQ where they explore issues of toxicity. They include a few straw man arguments, though, so a bit limited.

But they did have this interesting long-form exploration of 1911 lubrication: https://www.cherrybalmz.com/post/secrets-of-1911-reliability-how-to-lube-for-maximum-performance/

 

[medvedyt]

i d like to hear about the test for olive oil in cold. as most of the time it is going very in gel or freezing. i cant test it now at it is positive here in the Yukon but i will test when the cold is back.

 

[Dobermann]

i d like to hear about the test for olive oil in cold. as most of the time it is going very in gel or freezing. i cant test it now at it is positive here in the Yukon but i will test when the cold is back.

For rifles: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...il-is-all-you-need.400928/page-4#post-4112704

 

[medvedyt]

For rifles: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...il-is-all-you-need.400928/page-4#post-4112704

yes im still using graphite as aside the clp not that much work when it is really cold but again really cold doesnt mean the same for an alaskan, a yukoner or many canadians lol ...

 

[Eleven]

I bought a set of the cherry balmz on christmas sale after reading @RockAndSage mention them on this thread. I went down the knowledge extension hole starting with their website materials and decided it was worth playing with. So far i’ve used their stuff on a couple of ARs, a couple of sigs, a bolt gun and a 1911. The difference in the action on all of them is immediately noticeably smoother and easier action. I’m still in the applied research stage but so far I love this stuff. Had it down to -7 a few times in the ARs for night time coyote hunting but no extensive freeze testing yet.

 

[jonpall]

I bought a set of the cherry balmz on christmas sale after reading @RockAndSage mention them on this thread. I went down the knowledge extension hole starting with their website materials and decided it was worth playing with. So far i’ve used their stuff on a couple of ARs, a couple of sigs, a bolt gun and a 1911. The difference in the action on all of them is immediately noticeably smoother and easier action. I’m still in the applied research stage but so far I love this stuff. Had it down to -7 a few times in the ARs for night time coyote hunting but no extensive freeze testing yet.

Are you using the "black rifle balm"?

 

[Eleven]

Are you using the "black rifle balm"?

Mostly. I bought one of each variety because of the x-mas sale. I’ve used black rifle balm on my ARs, my P365s and a 1911. Also used the bolt rifle version on a bolt gun and the 22lr version on a 22lr 1911. Haven’t tried the cold weather version yet as I want to test the black rifle balm down to some serious cold. Haven’t gotten there yet. If I had to go with just one it would be the black rifle balm.

 

[Dobermann]

Mostly. I bought one of each variety because of the x-mas sale. I’ve used black rifle balm on my ARs, my P365s and a 1911. Also used the bolt rifle version on a bolt gun and the 22lr version on a 22lr 1911. Haven’t tried the cold weather version yet as I want to test the black rifle balm down to some serious cold. Haven’t gotten there yet. If I had to go with just one it would be the black rifle balm.

Thanks for the intel.

Any for anyone interested CherryBalmz currently has a 'buy two, get one free sale' and you can mix and match - so you could get all three types that @Eleven has tried.

 

[Dobermann]

Things like plant-derived oils tend to have really good high-temperature properties. But, depending on their refinement quality, they can often polymerize, and end up getting increasingly sticky over time. It's generally not an issue if you're shooting and re-applying regularly, but shoot a gun hot, stick it in storage (or a night stand) for six months, and some will actually be tacky. As in, slides going in slow-motion tacky. FireClean and Frog Lube were both a disaster with this issue. Plant-derived oils are also generally the worst in cold temperatures, alongside industrial greases, when used in guns. Stick a bottle of it in your freezer overnight to see what happens. Again, they're totally usable - it's just a question of limitations. Know the limitations, and you're fine.

I had an old jar of coconut oil in the cupboard (when hard on it when converting to paleo). What used to usually be solid was a mix of liquid and solid. The liquid was very runny, and the solid was chunky and had to be manually squashed - not fitting your guidance about a 'lotion' consistency at all. Immediately had me leery of using - the application would be a bit of a mess.

Put it out on a bench to experiment with today, and it's back to solid - purely from the drop in overnight temperature. So this lack of consistency looks like it would be an issue.

Following @nephewjephew's reminder about smoke points above, I might experiment with avocado and grape seed. (I use grape seed oil to treat chopping boards - I heard it doesn't rancidify when used for this application. No idea if true or not.)

I prefer a good grease on guns because it stays put better - especially in high heat - and actually acts like a sealant to keep crap out of the bearing surfaces. There's just not many that are properly designed for guns.

For those following along, the article about 1911 lubrication on the CherryBalmz site (linked in a post above) has some very interesting information on friction surfaces, sealed vs unsealed machines, and more ... including the importance of using grease, not oil, for 1911s ...

 

[id_jon]

I had an old jar of coconut oil in the cupboard (when hard on it when converting to paleo). What used to usually be solid was a mix of liquid and solid. The liquid was very runny, and the solid was chunky and had to be manually squashed - not fitting your guidance about a 'lotion' consistency at all. Immediately had me leery of using - the application would be a bit of a mess.

Put it out on a bench to experiment with today, and it's back to solid - purely from the drop in overnight temperature. So this lack of consistency looks like it would be an issue.

Following @nephewjephew's reminder about smoke points above, I might experiment with avocado and grape seed. (I use grape seed oil to treat chopping boards - I heard it doesn't rancidify when used for this application. No idea if true or not.)


For those following along, the article about 1911 lubrication on the CherryBalmz site (linked in a post above) has some very interesting information on friction surfaces, sealed vs unsealed machines, and more ...

Coconut oil solidifies below like 73*F or somewhere around there.
Have some CherryBalmz on the way from their sale!

 

[Dobermann]

For comparison sake, I thought I'd check out what Wilson Combat carry.

Where CherryBlamz is 15ml/0.5 oz for $16.99, Wilson's grease is 57ml/2oz for only $7.95 - or 114ml/4 oz for $10.95. (https://wilsoncombat.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=grease)

In other words, CherryBalmz is $1.13 per ml, while Wilson is either 14 or 10 cents per ml / $33.98 per oz vs $2.73 per oz.

Cherry Balmz quotes their product as lasting '10 times longer' and having '10 times the reliability' in a couple of places ... so one would hope that they compared their performance to the Wilson lube. [And I'm not really so wrapped up in this that I want to surf 1911 forums for hours to find out more ...]

Perhaps this is one of those times where the rate of use compared to the total cost is a bit irrelevant ... their 1911 guide said one application of their lube should last 2500-4000 rounds, and their FAQ says one application will last 3-4 months if shooting once a month (who only shoots once a month??).

This has me in mind of some special-purpose grease I have in my shed that I only need to use once a year for another application. Had that stuff for 25 years; it's still fine, and the cost is now somewhat irrelevant ...

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

For comparison sake, I thought I'd check out what Wilson Combat carry.

Where CherryBlamz is 15ml/0.5 oz for $16.99, Wilson's grease is 57ml/2oz for only $7.95 - or 114ml/4 oz for $10.95. (https://wilsoncombat.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=grease)

In other words, CherryBalmz is $1.13 per ml, while Wilson is either 14 or 10 cents per ml / $33.98 per oz vs $2.73 per oz.

Cherry Balmz quotes their product as lasting '10 times longer' and having '10 times the reliability' in a couple of places ... so one would hope that they compared their performance to the Wilson lube. [And I'm not really so wrapped up in this that I want to surf 1911 forums for hours to find out more ...]

Perhaps this is one of those times where the rate of use compared to the total cost is a bit irrelevant ... their 1911 guide said one application of their lube should last 2500-4000 rounds, and their FAQ says one application will last 3-4 months if shooting once a month (who only shoots once a month??).

This has me in mind of some special-purpose grease I have in my shed that I only need to use once a year for another application. Had that stuff for 25 years; it's still fine, and the cost is now somewhat irrelevant ...

They do mention that it "Stays put under extreme conditions, 40f to 350f." 40f is not very cold.

 

[Dobermann]

They do mention that it "Stays put under extreme conditions, 40f to 350f." 40f is not very cold.

Good point. I can't see a figure on the CherryBalmz site for what they rate theirs to.

 

[id_jon]

They claim their winter balm is good to -55F