@Cliff Gray a bit off topic, but related to bullet weights and such… how do you handle bullet/caliber/cartridge selection from clients given it meets legal requirements?
I imagine you’ve seen the full gamut… guys wanting to shoot a 338 WM they can’t control, a 223 they’ve practiced with a ton, and everything in between (good bullets, bad bullets, big, small, proficient shooter, awful shooter).
Seems tough to evaluate and handle the situation delicately as a guide, so I’m interested to hear your thoughts/experiences around it. I’ve heard of some guides saying things like “no 6.5 Creeds for elk”… well now you have 6 Creed, 22 Creed, 6 ARC, etc all gaining popularity.
I dictated this while driving so forgive any weird vocabulary...
Man, this is a deep question that would probably be better addressed on another thread or maybe in a book
. I've thought about it a lot, both in terms of how I've handled it myself and how the guides and outfitters I know have approached it.
The short answer to your question, "how do you handle bullet/caliber/cartridge selection from clients given it meets legal requirements?" is I don't. And I really haven't historically either. I of course provide my thoughts and advice for those that ask, but I've never had a strict rule on mechanicals versus fixed broadheads, never had caliber restrictions or anything like that.
what that comes down to is that regardless of what a hunter tells you about their shooting experience, their competence, how they practice, you're never going to get the real story as a guide. And because of that, you're not in a position to really control what somebody does.
I can tell a guy to shoot fixed broadheads, but he is never in a million years going to get his bow tuned... so he is actually better off with mechanicals.
I can tell a guy to get a 6mm and practice his balls off, but maybe he won't and I should have told him to get a .375 and only take shots at 80 yards or less for the best chances...
The other thing is this decision in some ways goes beyond the hunt. I've guided many people on archery hunts where they're maybe going to get one or two opportunities in seven days of hard hunting, and yet they choose to hunt with a longbow that limits them to fifteen yards. personal choice. You can extend that to the firearm world however you want. Somebody has decided to go on a hunt with a guide. They're looking for expertise on the species, the hunting tactics, and the local area. I don't think chastising them or limiting them on their weapon choice is really part of that job description.
I'll admit I always scoff a little when I talk to guides and outfitters that have really strong/strict limitations. The reason is I've had many, many guides work for me, and I've guided my whole life. Guides are exposed to a pretty amazing dataset, but unless a guide is very diligent about trying to figure this stuff out, the majority don't do the kind of critical thinkins that would give them some phenomenal perspective on terminal ballistics, bullet performance, cartridge selection, all of these things. They actually tend to be very overconfident on it. many of them are very naive to the options and pros/cons. Yet they have very strong opinions. I think a lot of it is really a feeling of control that they want.
And I understand that for some people going on guided hunts, this can be very socially awkward to deal with, because you don't want to go somewhere and feel like you're breaking the rules or basically having a different opinion than the guide. So if this is important to you, I do think you can always address it early on, and it may affect who you hunt with.
To extend that beyond your question, it's the same thing with archery and rifle. You run into this constantly in the guiding and outfitting world. There are outfitters that say they're archery and rifle guides, hunting tags with guys that are any weapon tags. sure enough an archer comes in, two days in that guide is pushing their rifle on them and trying to talk them into shooting with it. I view it as very similar, and honestly I'd call it bad behavior.
I could get into the depth of why guides in general have way less understanding of these things than they think, or even what other people perceive they should have. The reality is guides are exposed to an incredible dataset, particularly long term ones, but most don't really investigate the firearms/cartridges/bullets clients are using. I can say this with total transparency... in the hundreds of hunts I've guided, less than ten percent of the time did I know what kind of bullet the guy was shooting. And I think that could be extended to many other guides, including the ones with very strong opinions.
The other thing is guiding culture. A lot of guides come from multi-generational hunting and guiding families, and because of that, a lot of traditional knowledge gets handed down that they never question. They almost religiously believe it. That's for sure part of the culture.
So, super long winded answer, but at least it gives you my thoughts. Restrictions like "no 6.5 Creedmoor for elk" really make no sense across an audience of hunters with varying degrees of capability and experience. In a way, when I see that, it's an indicator of ego and naivety.
But in terms of advice specific to the context of your question, for people who want to shoot small calibers when there's a restriction: if it's written down as a restriction, don't book those hunts, or have a very in-depth conversation with that guide or outfitter. If they're not willing to budge, just go somewhere else.
